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Thread: LSA Camshafts

  1. #11
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    Dec 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
    FFS .... there is plenty of egotistical shit on this forum some days .... Cam Specs are just the start of it ... if you want perfection then you must be 100% sure your valve train is indexed to the best of your ability and knowledge.... installed heights must be even .... seat pressures must be even .... and once you've got this facts and harmonics right there is also ( in some cases) the need to run the cam in a Spintron .... and once that's all good .... then there is 'Cam Timing' (sometimes referred to as 'valve timing') .... which can be straight up and down or advanced or retarded ... sure your Cam specs are a great place to start when you head off on the "Engine Mod" journey but if you want perfection there are many more variables that come into play ... so share your Cam Specs away ... it will not necessarily make anyone else a winner at the strip unless the rest of the valvetrain is @blueprinted" to maximise its effectiveness ... there is plenty more precise knowledge that I can provide but unless your across this basics it's pointless ... good luck to the OP ...
    Firstly, thank you for sharing something worthwhile!

    This is what I don't understand. I've been researching a lot about this and people say there's little point comparing one company's grind to another as the lobes, valve events etc can all be different. If this is the case, why are people so reluctant to share the "basics" of duration, lift, LSA?
    Without playing around with cam advance/retard, what sort of valve timing would you recommend for a supercharged motor like the LSA? My understanding is you want as little overlap as possible

    Not many cam manufacturers quote the valve open/close on their websites, you have to pry for cam cards which is annoying. I'm also trying to work out differences between cam timing at .006" and .050" so I can compare apples with apples.
    If you don't mind can you elaborate on how these two cams would differ. They're not necessarily cams I'm looking at but just similar grinds from different manufacturers.

    233/238 .601"/.613" 114
    Timing @ .006" Intake - 32/79, Exhaust - 73/29

    231/239 .617"/.624" 113
    Timing @ .006" Intake - 30/70, Exhaust - 81/28

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenF-GTS View Post
    When you figure out what cams work very well, then it's nobodies business what the specs of the camshaft are.
    Anyone who races seriously isn't going to give you cam specs, if they did then everyone would copy and the playing field would be some what....more level.

    Shops don't go and have camshafts custom ground just to say it's a custom ground cam....thats if they are just saying that or they are actually having it made.

    Makes sense to me!
    if Colonel Sanders isn't giving out the 11 secret herbs and spices why would anyone else give it out free after they spent time and money doing the R&D.
    Admittedly there is more to an engine than a camshaft as Graeme has also said, other reciprocating parts need to work and be in perfect alignment and working order too, to maximise performance.

    I concur with Y2Clubby, Kirk I don't know what you've done to get the results you have BUT you've certainly got the results to prove it all works on the track and on the road.
    How you haven't blown the ass out of your GTS yet is beyond me. Goes to show though something is working right
    I like Ryan Walkinshaw and the work and options Walkinshaw offer but I feel their W557 is over priced and under delivers.
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  3. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
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    4,900
    Anyone not getting your valve train geometry correct shouldnít be a mechanic.
    Itís something you do when installing a camshaft.

    I didnít know we had to give mechanics tips on basic mechanical work.

    Of course valve train stability is needed if not you can kiss your engine goodnight and if it doesnít blow up then youíll have valve float/sealing issues and not make the power.

    2014 HSV GenF-GTS fitted with a Forced Induction Interchiller
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  4. #14
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    Feb 2011
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    126
    Had a custom grind cam put into my GTSR Maloo from a larger workshop and it was meant to be "spot on" for an auto. Lord knows how it was tuned (if at all ) but it wasn't very impressive. I must admit it was smooth and thought that was what I had to get if I wanted a cam in an auto with good manners.

    As some may have read in "Sam's GTS" thread, I had all the initial works redone at MotorTorque and they put in what they call their "Baby Cam" along with a few other goodies and it did not matter to me what the grind was based on the reports from owners of other LSA's coming out of there.

    Well I totally agree. It really doesn't matter what "grind" and what spec ( to a certain degree ) is written on the pack for a road car. It's how the R & D is done and the ability of the Mechanic and Tuner to make it work. This cam has a "Firm" idle, not lumpy, and strong right through the rev range. Great for a daily drive and plenty of poke. !

    The point here is that if a workshop can put together a cam package, have it reliable, have customers smiling and more importantly show consistant perfomance over many vehicles, does it really matter what the spec is ?
    GTSR Maloo Interchiller

  5. #15
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    I think that's a pretty good point. For average Joe, the cam specs don't matter, they just like to know what's in there for whatever reason. The truth for most people is that the tuner could say whatever spec is in there and it could be completely different. If they're expecting a bigger, angrier cam, the idle can easily be adjusted.

    If my tuner recommended a cam to suit my needs, I'd trust them over my own judgement. I trust them to understand the cam specs, valve events, lobe styles and how all that works with my engine and drivetrain and most importantly know how to get the most out of that cam when they tune it. Problem is, not all workshops can do that

  6. #16
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    Dec 2017
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    36
    Quote Originally Posted by markost View Post
    Had a custom grind cam put into my GTSR Maloo from a larger workshop and it was meant to be "spot on" for an auto. Lord knows how it was tuned (if at all ) but it wasn't very impressive. I must admit it was smooth and thought that was what I had to get if I wanted a cam in an auto with good manners.

    As some may have read in "Sam's GTS" thread, I had all the initial works redone at MotorTorque and they put in what they call their "Baby Cam" along with a few other goodies and it did not matter to me what the grind was based on the reports from owners of other LSA's coming out of there.

    Well I totally agree. It really doesn't matter what "grind" and what spec ( to a certain degree ) is written on the pack for a road car. It's how the R & D is done and the ability of the Mechanic and Tuner to make it work. This cam has a "Firm" idle, not lumpy, and strong right through the rev range. Great for a daily drive and plenty of poke. !

    The point here is that if a workshop can put together a cam package, have it reliable, have customers smiling and more importantly show consistant perfomance over many vehicles, does it really matter what the spec is ?
    Quote Originally Posted by white_lie View Post
    I think that's a pretty good point. For average Joe, the cam specs don't matter, they just like to know what's in there for whatever reason. The truth for most people is that the tuner could say whatever spec is in there and it could be completely different. If they're expecting a bigger, angrier cam, the idle can easily be adjusted.

    If my tuner recommended a cam to suit my needs, I'd trust them over my own judgement. I trust them to understand the cam specs, valve events, lobe styles and how all that works with my engine and drivetrain and most importantly know how to get the most out of that cam when they tune it. Problem is, not all workshops can do that
    I understand what you're both saying and in my view the bulk of the overall package working comes down to the tuner. I've heard/read lots of stories of cars going from "reputable" workshops to other tuners and there being a night and day difference in the car with nothing done apart from a retune or changing a few small things so the whole lot works together rather than against itself. I just like to know what I'm putting in to the engine so I can have some idea of how it will perform. Then if it doesn't deliver, I can pretty much assume it's the tuner/tune and not the parts.

    Whilst I'm still new to the LS scene, finding a good tuner seems to be the hard part. There's a lot of old information out there as the LS has been around for some time, are the guys that were being recommded years ago still as good/better when it comes to working with boost? I know with my R32 experience, a lot of tuners just don't seem to know what's going on when you get in to the higher boost/power levels and results can vary a lot.

  7. #17
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    Over the last 15 years the tuning market has changed for the worse ... the moment laptops got involved lots of guys with basic computer skills started to tune cars and forgot the reason why they need tuning

    Let me explain - an engine whether it naturally aspirated or forced is just an "AIR PUMP" ... nothing else ... so with that in mind you must first understand how it pumps air .... and only after that, it's time to think about how to make it pump air better ... very basic stuff but that's the reality of the matter ....

    Once that is "TOTALLY" understood, clever operators with mathematical savvy can dissect each part of the particular engine to see how it's best made flow air more effectively

    To understand this, there are maths to process including distance from throttle body butterfly to valve .... distance from valve to exh collector .... and corresponding sizes that will enable better flow without turbulence ...

    .... yep ... I'm talking airspeed and it factors into your thinking whether it's N/A or SC ....

    Then you need to understand the combustion cycle and how that works (Cam and Timing) ...

    After that you can study various Camshaft profiles to maximise your needs

    Sadly many of the laptop tuners of today have no farking idea how the combustion engine actually functions and they use all sorts of keyboard parameters to achieve their goals ... and for all intensive purposes this works to a fair degree ....

    ... but if your after perfection you'll struggle to find it on this forum .... go get a copy of Smokey Yunicks book and have a read ... then sit back and think about how much time, effort and money your prepared to put into your streeter

    I can appreciate the OP wishes to get a good result but I really think learning a bit more will be his or her best policy for today .... then go find a shop to do the work .....

    There are probably only a handful of tuners in Australia that I could trust and even then I need to carefully set the parameters so I get what I want ... and I pay for what I wanted ....

    Here is a test for a tuner .... if he can tune a 350 plus CID V8 with a 750 "Annular discharge" Holley and a Mallory Twin Point .... he 'may' actually have half a chance .... sure he may be older (in his 40's). but at least he knows how long it really takes to 'program' an engine tune ...

  8. #18
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    ... double post - oops
    Last edited by Sniper; 14-02-2018 at 02:53 PM. Reason: Double posted

  9. #19
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    Apr 2007
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    2,394
    Ive had load of cammed cars, and I personally think a cam is a waste of money in this day and age of motoring and not worth it, if the car is a daily drive forget it. 9/10 tuners cant get them to run right anyway well in Perth they cant , they all chase Peak HP numbers which mean FA when you sitting in traffic and the car is chewing tonne of fuel, and then once the engine is opened , you have opened up a can of worms so to speak.
    On a LSA surely they are fast enough unopened my 2 cents. If your dead set on a cam, find the best tuner and make sure the shop use correct valvesprings

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodders188 View Post
    If your dead set on a cam, find the best tuner and make sure the shop use correct valvesprings
    .... so true .... and pull the heads off and check all the installed heights and get the springs even across ALL cylinders... and before the heads go back on put a steel rule across the top of the valves to ensure the heights are even .... valve train harmonic perfection is power and torque for free (sort of) ...







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