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Thread: LSA Camshafts

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
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    LSA Camshafts

    Been doing a bit of research in to upgrades for my GTS and I'm seeing a lot of similar packages around the same numbers once the add a cam and all the usual bolt ons but no one seems to give away the specs. Anyone know the difference between say the Harrop or Walkinshaw? These kits and cams seem to make the numbers but don't run the times. How are the cams different to the FII packages that run the times?

    Can anyone elaborate on the spec of cam that is in these packages?

    As far as I can work out that's what the difference comes down to. They're generally running similar boost, all the other bolt ons are the same so it must be the cam right?

    Just trying to work out what to do from the start rather than being led down the garden path and wasting money as I've been there before

  2. #2
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    Jun 2013
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    Think the walkinshaw systems normally have a very generic and safe tune to cover their ass for the warranty


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    Melbourne
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    If i had an LSA, I'd send my car straight up to Sydney to get one of Kirks packages. He's proven consistent times and mph which means the mods make the power you're paying for. Not just that, but his tuner BMEP clearly knows what he's doing, so there's no risk in receiving a dud tune.

    They've done their homework, and their packages work, so don't risk paying a lot more for a Walkinshaw badge, and to have some bullshit warranty that isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Do it properly from the start and look at the proven results.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    Trying to get specs on a cam that is proven for the LSA is like trying to get rockin horse shit ��

  5. #5
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    There are several things at play here, those who race understand exactly what is going on, those who race dyno's...well they race dyno's....enough said.

    The Yard Stick:
    Firstly I go back to NickGTS's VF GTS, stock cam stock heads ran 10.68 @ 131mph this is a level playing field with all other tuners, workshops, customer cars. He listed his mods, he didn't lie and that's his best ET and MPH. The car was seen by many and it is what it is.

    Now for a minute forget about ET....MPH is MPH it does not lie, you either make the claimed HP or you don't and the MPH indicates that, next people will say he has X experience and seat time, go watch the guy race (It's very frustrating at times) so the seat time and experience etc no that is taken out of the equation.

    Don't forget here that car is faster than cars with more boost, camshafts and heads...Nick actually retained the stock exhaust just with headers. Let that sink in for a minute; cars with more mods, cams and heads are slower.


    So what does that leave you with?....The answer is tuner talent and keeping the thing cold.
    There is no special combo, no camshaft, no head work etc nothing it's a bloody stock cam, stock heads GTS and Nick himself even admitted to having his Holden dealership change the oil every 10,000km....something he still does, but with a few more thrown in between now as you shouldn't beat on the car so much and not keep up with oil changes.

    Next if you are going to break the thing it would have happened on the 41c day that he raced, literally can you punish a car more?
    So dead set the tune is on the money and intake temps are under control, that day Nick lost 1mph compared to the week prior which was a 26c day and Adam (Evil1) lost 5mph compared to the week prior.

    The chiller in this regard gives you so much control over HP gains and loses.
    On the dyno you can simulate any and all intake temps and RPM points versus intake temps and ensure that your engine is making exactly what it is capable of making at EVERY possible intake temp. Something that has not been possible in the past.


    Camshafts:
    Advertised duration is exactly what the name implies, it is "what should we list this camshaft as in our catalog".....literally.

    The duration at 50thou gives people a reference point and something they have grown to think they understand.

    Anyone running numbers others are unable to achieve must be cheating in most others eye's, if they cant do it then it's impossible or cheating.


    Claimed engine HP output:
    You can prove your claimed engine HP.

    In drag racing your car is a set weight based off the weight of the car the calculation of weight and MPH that you run you are able to work out your engine HP.

    Now some people will no doubt not understand this but even if you get a bad launch with wheel spin the car still traps a very very similar MPH.

    As the saying goes you either have the MPH or you donít.

    A stock VF GTS runs 118-119mph on a good day/night with no modifications and street tires.


    Thats 11.965 @ 118.90mph

    Now with fuel and driver a GTS weighs in right around 2015kg thats 4442lbs
    I use this calculator here it is usually pretty accurate: http://www.torinocobra.com/horsepower.htm

    Punch in that weight and MPH and you get an engine HP rating of 582.7HP at the engine.
    LSA's claimed factory HP rating is 580HP...so that's bang on the money.

    Motormag tested the W557 direct from Walkinshaw and it ran 125.24mph see here;
    https://www.motormag.com.au/reviews/...aw-w557-review

    It would be safe to assume that Walkinshaw handed the keys over to motormag for a car they were highly satisfied with, felt it made good power on the dyno and knew and signed off on an agreement to allow motormag to test the car on a drag strip/circuit, chassis dyno etc.

    You're welcome to go and punch those figures into the above calculator and see what engine HP rating you get.

    Those not willing to work it out:
    681HP at the engine, this is 65.9HP down on what the claimed engine HP is.

    Before you jump up and down:
    This was published on the 13th of July 2017, the person in the car is wearing a jumper, it's safe to assume this was filmed late June early July....literally the best time of the year for drag racing. Unprepared track means nothing the track is full of rubber and unless the car did a burnout the entire length of the track the MPH is true, all I can hear is a slight churp of the tires when it hits 2nd gear.
    (WSID on Wednesday nights is also an unprepared track and that's when Nick has raced)

    The above on the stock GTS with street tires is factual the car ran those numbers, yes the guy had a few tips on how to leave the line and get a good ET, but mph is mph. ET has nothing to do with it.

    I've got passes where my 60ft is effected by wheel spin and i cut a 1.4 or a 1.7 or even a 1.8 60ft and my MPH is very similar if not the same.

    So Nick's GTS ran 131mph full weight thats 779hp at the engine or 581kw at the engine.

    If you are comparing apples to apples here the 557 has a camshaft and a full exhaust system.

    We know the chiller is worth 40-45rwhp on the dyno and about 60rwhp at the track, so lets say Nicks 779hp at the engine without a chiller is then 719hp thats still 38hp more than a cammed car...

    You're more than welcome to use this calculator until your heart is content.

    Summary:
    I have no intention of bagging out Walkinshaw, I don't think they really care they sell their badge/brand and people eat it up, it's not really a performance, race orientated package it's more so I have a walkinshaw modified car and buying the brand name.
    If their chassis or engine dyno says that they make 557kw nice thumbs up!

    Walkinshaw handed over the keys to motormag I'm sure they were happy with the car they gave motormag and knew full well people could simply lay out the drag racing results versus online mph calculators....anyone could have worked this out, it didn't require me to point it out.

    Don't shoot the messenger here if you love Walkinshaw I just punched
    1; a stock GTS
    2; Nicks stage 2 GTS
    3; W557 GTS............................into an online calculator.
    Last edited by GenF-GTS; 12-02-2018 at 01:49 AM.

    2014 HSV GenF-GTS fitted with a Forced Induction Interchiller
    2017 HSV GTSR
    http://www.facebook.com/ForcedInductionInterchillers
    Australia's outright Fastest 6.2L 1900 LSA VF GTS & Fastest stock bottom end
    9.700 @145.22mph 21/June/2017
    V-Box Results 0-100km/h in 2.47sec

    Looking for colder IATís? weíve achieved 11c IAT2 on a 41c day and -8c during winter.
    We have proven cabin AC vent temps are better than GM spec, both IAT2's and vent temps are all on video with nothing to hide.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfnturf View Post
    Trying to get specs on a cam that is proven for the LSA is like trying to get rockin horse shit ��
    But why is that? I know some people want to keep things to themselves if it maybe gives them more business but surely some information can be shared?

  7. #7
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    Dec 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenF-GTS View Post

    Camshafts:
    Advertised duration is exactly what the name implies, it is "what should we list this camshaft as in our catalog".....literally.

    The duration at 50thou gives people a reference point and something they have grown to think they understand.

    Anyone running numbers others are unable to achieve must be cheating in most others eye's, if they cant do it then it's impossible or cheating.

    If we can't compare cams on 50 thou duration, what can we compare them on then? I like to know what I'm getting so I have some understanding or expectation of what I'm going to get and everyone states duration at 50 thou as the most common and more accurate than advertised duration.
    I can't say I've seen many cams actually advertised by their advertised duration, it's usually the duration at 50 thou that people quote when comparing or referencing cams

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
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    4,900
    Quote Originally Posted by 1QIKLSA View Post
    But why is that? I know some people want to keep things to themselves if it maybe gives them more business but surely some information can be shared?
    When you figure out what cams work very well, then it's nobodies business what the specs of the camshaft are.
    Anyone who races seriously isn't going to give you cam specs, if they did then everyone would copy and the playing field would be some what....more level.

    Shops don't go and have camshafts custom ground just to say it's a custom ground cam....thats if they are just saying that or they are actually having it made.

    Why should anyone obtain that information for free?


    Quote Originally Posted by 1QIKLSA View Post
    If we can't compare cams on 50 thou duration, what can we compare them on then? I like to know what I'm getting so I have some understanding or expectation of what I'm going to get and everyone states duration at 50 thou as the most common and more accurate than advertised duration.
    I can't say I've seen many cams actually advertised by their advertised duration, it's usually the duration at 50 thou that people quote when comparing or referencing cams
    We do 2 camshafts a stealth runs mid to low 10's
    and a lumpy one runs low 10's as previously discussed in the other thread.
    You're welcome to go for a drive in either and see what it sounds and drives like etc.

    Other than this is what it sounds and drives like that's all you will ever be told about them.
    As a consumer you don't really need anymore details, you're provided with previous ET, MPH, dyno sheets, sound and drivability before you purchase, you do not need to know the specs of the cam.


    Anyone who shares cam specs, clearly has nothing they wish to protect.

    2014 HSV GenF-GTS fitted with a Forced Induction Interchiller
    2017 HSV GTSR
    http://www.facebook.com/ForcedInductionInterchillers
    Australia's outright Fastest 6.2L 1900 LSA VF GTS & Fastest stock bottom end
    9.700 @145.22mph 21/June/2017
    V-Box Results 0-100km/h in 2.47sec

    Looking for colder IATís? weíve achieved 11c IAT2 on a 41c day and -8c during winter.
    We have proven cabin AC vent temps are better than GM spec, both IAT2's and vent temps are all on video with nothing to hide.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Hobart, Tasmania
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    2,018
    FFS .... there is plenty of egotistical shit on this forum some days .... Cam Specs are just the start of it ... if you want perfection then you must be 100% sure your valve train is indexed to the best of your ability and knowledge.... installed heights must be even .... seat pressures must be even .... and once you've got this facts and harmonics right there is also ( in some cases) the need to run the cam in a Spintron .... and once that's all good .... then there is 'Cam Timing' (sometimes referred to as 'valve timing') .... which can be straight up and down or advanced or retarded ... sure your Cam specs are a great place to start when you head off on the "Engine Mod" journey but if you want perfection there are many more variables that come into play ... so share your Cam Specs away ... it will not necessarily make anyone else a winner at the strip unless the rest of the valvetrain is @blueprinted" to maximise its effectiveness ... there is plenty more precise knowledge that I can provide but unless your across this basics it's pointless ... good luck to the OP ...

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
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    1,057
    So for people who aren't close to the best workshops who have the best secret cams, are there some good off the shelf cams that we can request and have installed and get good (not amazing) results? I'm talking about the Harrop H02 or factory LS9 or...???
    2014 Gen-F GTS
    2017 VF2 SS-V Redline Hackwagon







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