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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    4,596
    With denser, freer flowing air, less load on the crank/blower the charger will compress more "volume" of air into a "space" hence why the workshop who had no added ignition timing saw a rwhp gain from simply having colder, denser and more air at a lesser boost pressure.

    So because the charger can push air into the "space" with more ease it can move more air volume into that "space"
    so YES more air is being ingested and compressed as it's easier to put it into the pressurized "space" so blower efficiency is improved.
    A reading of the air flow at the MAF will confirm the same and has previously shown more air passing the MAF.

    View the air molecules as people, you can fit 100 fat hot sweaty people in the blower lid and cylinders however there is a line up of 10,000 more people outside waiting and pushing to get inside but because of the 100 fat people they can't fit inside there is no room as there is too many fat people.
    If we shrink the hot sweaty fat people with freezing cold air to be cold hearted skinny people then we can fit a few more people in the engine.
    Last edited by GenF-GTS; 18-11-2016 at 10:49 PM.

    2014 HSV GenF-GTS fitted with a Forced Induction Interchiller
    http://www.facebook.com/ForcedInductionInterchillers
    Australia's outright Fastest VF GTS & Fastest 6.2L 1900LSA with a stock bottom end
    9.700 @145.22mph 21/June/2017
    V-Box Results 0-100km/h in 2.47sec

    Looking for colder IAT's? we have achieved 11c IAT2 on a 41c day and -8c during winter.
    We have proven cabin AC vent temps are better than GM spec, both IAT2's and vent temps are all on video with nothing to hide.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    North West NSW
    Posts
    293
    Everyone knows that when you suck on a hot stubby of beer your cheeks expand from the hot beer !.. conversely when you suck on a cold stubby the beer slides down effortlessly. Same principle..
    Previous 2011 MY 12 VE R8 Maloo -Perfect Blue
    Current 2013 VF GTS W507 - Herron White

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    483
    Do you have a cold air intake on your car Pirate? If you do then you know how they work

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    4,596
    Pir4te How colder intake temps work have been explained to you a million different ways from multiple people now, you've always had not your 2 cents but your $50 worth of comments in every single chiller related thread or chiller related conversations in other threads you've even gone as far to create your own threads about chillers.

    You have an issue with me you know I know every knows it and you don't stop your constant what appears to be jealousy as your car isn't even fitted with any form of forced induction yet you are constantly trying in any way possible to continue some sort of argument be it with me or someone who agrees with the mere concept of reducing intake temperatures.

    It's simply not worth explaining to you any further how a chiller works.

    If you genuinely don't understand as you put it then look at it this way "it just works"

    2014 HSV GenF-GTS fitted with a Forced Induction Interchiller
    http://www.facebook.com/ForcedInductionInterchillers
    Australia's outright Fastest VF GTS & Fastest 6.2L 1900LSA with a stock bottom end
    9.700 @145.22mph 21/June/2017
    V-Box Results 0-100km/h in 2.47sec

    Looking for colder IAT's? we have achieved 11c IAT2 on a 41c day and -8c during winter.
    We have proven cabin AC vent temps are better than GM spec, both IAT2's and vent temps are all on video with nothing to hide.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by Eors View Post
    The cooler the air the denser the charge the bigger the bang...simple volumetric efficiency..with forced induction you can increase VM above 100% ...naturally aspirated engine can also reach 100%...if you have ever had a carby engine it always runs and performs the best on those cold nights-cold air = dense charge = more power. The basic theory behind and intercooler which is what we use on our marine turbocharged diesels. Forget about timing advance for a second the cold denser air already increases horsepower...the cooler and denser the air charge the bigger the bang on the power stroke
    So would an upgraded intercooler also provide bang for your buck in this regard?

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    483
    Quote Originally Posted by Trucker View Post
    So would an upgraded intercooler also provide bang for your buck in this regard?
    I believe it would as it would increase the surface area for cooling the air charge...but from I see the interchiller is the best option....no this is not a plug for the product either

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by sdtash View Post
    Everyone knows that when you suck on a hot stubby of beer your cheeks expand from the hot beer !.. conversely when you suck on a cold stubby the beer slides down effortlessly. Same principle..
    does this principal apply to cans?

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Perth, WA
    Posts
    6,922
    Quote Originally Posted by Trucker View Post
    So would an upgraded intercooler also provide bang for your buck in this regard?
    You mean the heat exchanger?
    Its difficult to change the intercooler on PD blowers as its essentially part of the charger. You can't easily fit a larger one in, possibly something more efficient but it would be costly. The heat exchanger is easy to replace though.

    I don't know if anyone has done any testing on the stock LSA heat exchanger.
    07GTS made a bit going to a decent aftermarket PWR item compared to the cheap one that comes in the Harrop kit, so I would imagine there's something in it....but if you had a chiller and were cooling it beyond what is capable with ambient air flow then its a moot point

    Fitting larger intercoolers on air to air systems always shows a benefit though. Like ditching the small top mount on a WRX or most turbo diesels and going with a large front mount

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    4,596
    Most of the gains from swapping the front mount heat exchanger are usually from simply having more coolant volume.

    Here is the example, the VF GTS IAT2 runs right around 10c above the ambient air temp when at 100km/h
    Someone I know upgraded the heat exchanger with a larger PWR unit and the IAT2 was then around 7c above the ambient temp at 100km/h

    When we made our massive 6.5L reservoir this put the IAT2 (no interchiller) at around 5-6c above the ambient air temp at 100km/h

    So as you can see it's just the fact you have more coolant volume.
    Upgrading the heat exchanger isn't a bad idea and certainly viable if you are say circuit racing, it combined with our reservoir will work a treat.

    But no heat exchanger is going to net you below ambient intake temps.

    And then if going further and comparing the chiller to an ice box, ice melts, refrigerant is ever lasting and just gets colder and colder. So not even ice can give you the same sort of temps, plus the ice then comes with the hassle of changing the melted (ice/water) out each time and lugging 50+kg of ice around just to keep it cool.


    We have actually tested the LSA blower quite a lot in fact we did a test where we had zero cooling, we turned off the chiller and closed the bypass valve so no heat exchanger for cooling either and drove around for 45-60min just cruising the IAT2 simply sits around 20c above the ambient air temp.

    2014 HSV GenF-GTS fitted with a Forced Induction Interchiller
    http://www.facebook.com/ForcedInductionInterchillers
    Australia's outright Fastest VF GTS & Fastest 6.2L 1900LSA with a stock bottom end
    9.700 @145.22mph 21/June/2017
    V-Box Results 0-100km/h in 2.47sec

    Looking for colder IAT's? we have achieved 11c IAT2 on a 41c day and -8c during winter.
    We have proven cabin AC vent temps are better than GM spec, both IAT2's and vent temps are all on video with nothing to hide.







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