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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    4,595

    E85 + Forced Induction Interchiller

    Last week Russo Performance dyno tuned a 402ci LS VE Holden SS, running E85 and the interchiller.

    This was the first car with the new revised version of the interchiller running the drier (all systems now come with the drier) I used this car as my template for the new system layout.

    The blower was the older style magnuson 2300 (downwards discharge style) these run 50-60c intake temps when just cruising around and not even in boost.

    HP without the chiller and on E85 was 630rwhp @ 17psi of boost
    HP with the chiller and on E85 was 695rwhp @ 15psi of boost

    Thats a gain of 65rwhp same day same dyno, car was tuned to it's full potential with a knock box without the chiller. Then the chiller was turned on IAT correction table was plotted and adjusted to suit the new much lower intake temps.

    Intake temp was quoted as being at 24c after the dyno run was completed which is highly impressive, since this is when it's going to be at it's hottest after doing a WOT pull.

    2014 HSV GenF-GTS fitted with a Forced Induction Interchiller
    http://www.facebook.com/ForcedInductionInterchillers
    Australia's outright Fastest VF GTS & Fastest 6.2L 1900LSA with a stock bottom end
    9.700 @145.22mph 21/June/2017
    V-Box Results 0-100km/h in 2.47sec

    Looking for colder IAT's? we have achieved 11c IAT2 on a 41c day and -8c during winter.
    We have proven cabin AC vent temps are better than GM spec, both IAT2's and vent temps are all on video with nothing to hide.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    4,595
    Just an old bump regarding E85 and the interchiller.

    Anybody doubting the above HP results are more than welcome to contact Russos.

    Yes E85 can control combustion temps but it does not control intake temps, E85 still can have engine knock you are not able to run unlimited ignition timing because of it.

    Forced Induction cars especially PD blowers are not like NA cars, it has been tested many times over that the air exiting the blower rotors on a PD blower pre intercooler can be as much as 165c therefore engine knock is a limiting factor from extreme intake temps whilst in boost pressure.



    Recently NickGTS's car on the forum ran a 10.7 with a chiller + bottom pulley
    Another GTS without a chiller ran a 10.7 with E85 and a top/bottom pulley (more boost)
    (Both cars have the same camshaft, headers etc)

    Therefore the other car is making the same HP as NickGTS but doing it via more boost and E85.
    So the chiller is making the same power output as more boost + E85 in this comparison.

    Someone said there is no way a chiller can match E85 for power gains yet the car with the chiller runs the same time as the E85 car BUT the chiller car is running less boost! And both cars have the exact same setup and stock camshaft!

    Further more, based on what this person said this means the E85 car would lose MORE power than the chiller car if it were reverted back to pump 98 making the chiller cars performance look even more impressive since it would still be running less boost.


    So why are both cars running the same times when the other car has;
    1. more boost
    2. E85

    E85 has been claimed by this person to make more power than the chiller and we already know more boost should make it even faster on top of the E85 right?




    To further put this to rest MORPOWA in SA dyno tuned/installed our interchiller on an E85 magnuson heartbeat, again you are welcome to call the guys at MORPOWA and ask them about the results they had, here is the dyno comparison.



    This dyno shows a before baseline run where the car was tuned elsewhere and made 420.5rwkw on E85 (purple line)
    422.2rwkw (blue line) is E85 without the chiller + morpowa tune
    453rwkw (red line) is E85 + chiller + morpowa tune

    So in this case the chiller + E85 compared to just E85 they were able to find another 30.8rwkw (41.27rwhp) from the addition of the chiller to the E85 combo. As you can see the HP gain is throughout most of the power curve.


    But hey lets listen to this person on the forum and not take 2 reputable Australian tuners word for lets look to the USA guys!

    Vengeance racing in the USA had this LS3 camaro come in to get fitted with the chiller a camshaft and E85...If you dont know Vengeance look them up they have some VERY fast cars many runs 8's and 9's in full trim. You're also welcome to contact them regarding these results.



    526.97rwhp (Blue line) pump 93 (comp camshaft)
    594.38rwhp (red line) E85 (Vengeance racing camshaft)
    627.40rwhp (green line) Interchiller + E85 (Vengeance racing camshaft)

    In this case on E85 the chiller was worth 33.02rwhp


    I don't ask every shop or customer what their entire combo is, plenty get back to me and tell me they achieved XX HP gains these ones have sent me their results on E85.....thats 2 well known aussie workshops and 1 very well known USA workshop.

    But hey all 3 of these workshops must have no idea what they are doing right??? because E85 supposedly negates the need for an interchiller on a PD blower car.

    And Nicks car and the other one....well thats blatantly obvious, E85 + more boost gets you the same results as a chiller car running less boost.
    Last edited by GenF-GTS; 04-09-2016 at 12:11 PM.

    2014 HSV GenF-GTS fitted with a Forced Induction Interchiller
    http://www.facebook.com/ForcedInductionInterchillers
    Australia's outright Fastest VF GTS & Fastest 6.2L 1900LSA with a stock bottom end
    9.700 @145.22mph 21/June/2017
    V-Box Results 0-100km/h in 2.47sec

    Looking for colder IAT's? we have achieved 11c IAT2 on a 41c day and -8c during winter.
    We have proven cabin AC vent temps are better than GM spec, both IAT2's and vent temps are all on video with nothing to hide.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Blue Mountains
    Posts
    268
    Well by DATA SHOWN there is a benefit to running a chiller with E85.

    We all know better temperature control is important,.
    It's well known fact most of the hi power LSA cars in the USA - CTSV's Zl1's are running ice boxes in trunks some on some E blend fuel also.
    Heat is the killer on power on supercharged applications..

    Point being made is there is a benefit to running a chiller along with E85
    E85 has its own qualities which some understand more than others,
    The majority of people understand E85 = more power! that is all
    Last edited by NickGts; 04-09-2016 at 07:29 AM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Blue Mountains
    Posts
    268
    Slightly off topic, my journey to work 45km each way there are zero E85 fuel stations (Penrith area) closest have to go further up mountain to little servo in back street (err don't think so!! how long that been standing for) other is further on from work. Simply not enough locations.

    Article from couple years back
    http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/e...205-1ahgx.html

    Good basic read

    All went toward sticking to 98

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Blue Mountains
    Posts
    268
    Quote Originally Posted by pir4te View Post
    Nick this is an advertising thread, yes it is off topic. Please see some useful info in the new thread.
    I'm looking new thread you mentioned not showing up (or is my iPhone playing up again)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Western Victoria
    Posts
    813
    I don't give a shit either way but the 2nd and 3rd lines in post #2 are a very strange and defensive way to sell something.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    4,595
    Nobody is doubting that E85 doesn't yield a HP increase these dyno reports from 3 different workshops are just confirming that E85 + the interchiller results in even greater HP gains.

    2014 HSV GenF-GTS fitted with a Forced Induction Interchiller
    http://www.facebook.com/ForcedInductionInterchillers
    Australia's outright Fastest VF GTS & Fastest 6.2L 1900LSA with a stock bottom end
    9.700 @145.22mph 21/June/2017
    V-Box Results 0-100km/h in 2.47sec

    Looking for colder IAT's? we have achieved 11c IAT2 on a 41c day and -8c during winter.
    We have proven cabin AC vent temps are better than GM spec, both IAT2's and vent temps are all on video with nothing to hide.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Blue Mountains
    Posts
    268
    Problem is you basically have person slating chiller, for all intensive purposes saying doesnt work E85 much better (or way it has been read)
    Just acknowledge that chiller does work and is good idea.

    We all know E85 makes good power, but isnt for free.

    Fuel system will need some sort of upgrade to cope with the ethanol content, our GTS's are recommended to run on 98 so would take that we would have to mod pump/injectors maybe lines to suit it.

    You need more fuel to get to same point - around 30% more
    eg norm fuel 14.7:1 E85 9.8:1
    14.7 parts air to 1 fuel
    9.8 parts air to 1 fuel = E85 has to be alot richer at base level to get to same point

    At this point you do the math ( fuel terminal pricing not forecourt)
    E85 91.27c a ltr
    98 116.52c a ltr
    assume 70 ltr tank
    cost to fill
    E85 $63.89
    98 $81.56
    Now you need 30% (most say 35% more fuel but I will be generous) more fuel so your 70 ltr's has just changed into 91ltrs (plus another trip to bowser)
    E85 $83.05

    So now E85 is now more expensive for same equivalent fill up!!!

    You still have to ensure car has been correctly modded and tuned to run E85, you can't just chuck the fuel in and expect a gain without modification to tune ain't going to happen you car has to be tuned for it unless factory set up.

    So the cost argument out of the window (see article posted earlier)

    The availability is frankly rubbish, I can go up road to closest station and get from a side street low volume seller (dont fancy fuel that been standing along time let alone a very hydroscopic one!!) or drive over 20km to get to other station!! duh waste more fuel!!.

    Availability argument out of the window

    Still power is clearly a winning benefit, which we can all agree on

    3 clear examples been given showing that E85 tune compared to normal fuel tune showed increase,
    Further adding a chiller ontop of E85 and adjusting tune to take into account this netted even further gains...

    Which shows clearly chiller does work.
    Track times show an E85 tune car running small amount more boost but otherwise same setup us my chiller car are running same times
    So we can deduce that the chiller is worth on its own merits the same as small amount extra boost and E85.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    221
    I don't know about you guys, but I love a beer of an afternoon. Others like one of a morning. others ,like both. some love E85, others the Interchiller, some both. F**k who cares either way?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    4,595
    Quote Originally Posted by Trucker View Post
    I don't know about you guys, but I love a beer of an afternoon. Others like one of a morning. others ,like both. some love E85, others the Interchiller, some both. F**k who cares either way?
    If your after more power you get the best of both worlds and run E85 + the interchiller it's been proven by 3 different workshops in Australia and the USA and all have achieved similar HP gains.

    2014 HSV GenF-GTS fitted with a Forced Induction Interchiller
    http://www.facebook.com/ForcedInductionInterchillers
    Australia's outright Fastest VF GTS & Fastest 6.2L 1900LSA with a stock bottom end
    9.700 @145.22mph 21/June/2017
    V-Box Results 0-100km/h in 2.47sec

    Looking for colder IAT's? we have achieved 11c IAT2 on a 41c day and -8c during winter.
    We have proven cabin AC vent temps are better than GM spec, both IAT2's and vent temps are all on video with nothing to hide.







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