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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCBVFGTS View Post
    G'day John was thinking the same thing mate. Can't be to careful these days

    GenF-GTS:- Hopefully HSV will pick up on this issue quickly if they haven't already and do a recall for this issue. Is GM doing this for the LSA's in the USA or is it up to the owner to perform this mod themselves?
    GM have not done a recall on them, I also do not think HSV will either. All the guys in the US change it themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Audi View Post
    We'll as bad as the 60,000mile shaft looks it hasn't failed. With that being near 100,000km I can't see them recalling them. The Callaway cb4 was never recalled was it?
    It may not have reached failure but it's still not good.
    Callaway wasn't recalled either......none will be.

    2014 HSV GenF-GTS fitted with a Forced Induction Interchiller
    http://www.facebook.com/ForcedInductionInterchillers
    Australia's outright Fastest VF GTS & Fastest 6.2L 1900LSA with a stock bottom end
    9.700 @145.22mph 21/June/2017
    V-Box Results 0-100km/h in 2.47sec

    Looking for colder IAT's? we have achieved 11c IAT2 on a 41c day and -8c during winter.
    We have proven cabin AC vent temps are better than GM spec, both IAT2's and vent temps are all on video with nothing to hide.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    Ah don't get me wrong it's way premature wear. Just pointing out there's fat chance of HSV recalling.
    I'd defiantly change it myself if I had one.
    Zorst video: https://youtu.be/R0oKu5PMQG4
    Water Proof Arrma Kraton on 6S: https://youtu.be/ZZMs7dDCCAY

    #21 2001 VX R8 series II
    #16 2006 HSV Dealer Team ClubSport
    #771 2010 E2 GTS

  3. #13
    Before anyone makes this change they should listen to how the engine sounds.

    The reason why this part is in place is to reduce blower rattle a low rpm by keeping pressure on the blower rotters at low rpm.
    If you listen to an engine with the solid coupling in place it sounds like there is a lot of marbles rattling around in the blower.
    The noise was loud.
    I did a stage two upgrade , the new coupling was installed in the car before mine at the same work Sams performance , it was his first one as well and the noise was really bad.

    When we put the original part in place it sounded perfect , just it had come out of the factory.
    This my theory with the wear on the shaft.
    When the item is installed from factory it does not have enough preloaded pressure put on when it is assembled, this means the spring is moving on the shaft, thus wearing the shaft over time.

    My advice have listen before you decided to change this part you be shocked by the sound of your new car.

  4. #14
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    Can the metal from the worn shaft get into the engine?
    Zorst video: https://youtu.be/R0oKu5PMQG4
    Water Proof Arrma Kraton on 6S: https://youtu.be/ZZMs7dDCCAY

    #21 2001 VX R8 series II
    #16 2006 HSV Dealer Team ClubSport
    #771 2010 E2 GTS

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    4,598
    Quote Originally Posted by Prussian Steel View Post
    Before anyone makes this change they should listen to how the engine sounds.

    The reason why this part is in place is to reduce blower rattle a low rpm by keeping pressure on the blower rotters at low rpm.
    If you listen to an engine with the solid coupling in place it sounds like there is a lot of marbles rattling around in the blower.
    The noise was loud.
    I did a stage two upgrade , the new coupling was installed in the car before mine at the same work Sams performance , it was his first one as well and the noise was really bad.

    When we put the original part in place it sounded perfect , just it had come out of the factory.
    This my theory with the wear on the shaft.
    When the item is installed from factory it does not have enough preloaded pressure put on when it is assembled, this means the spring is moving on the shaft, thus wearing the shaft over time.

    My advice have listen before you decided to change this part you be shocked by the sound of your new car.
    From everything I have read about the ZL1 and CTS-V all the guys are changing the standard one with the spring because of blower rattle at low rpm etc.

    http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...12&postcount=1
    Most of you guys will never go farther than a snout removal for a pulley or to just fix the rattling some cant stand from the isolator
    http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...88&postcount=1
    I noticed this weekend that when the car is idling and the hood is up, there is a light rattle coming from the area of the supercharger.

    I did a quick search on the web and discovered that the CTS-V folks have been complaining of this for a while.
    http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...24&postcount=9
    It's the stock isolator that makes the rattling sound. Check out this link, the ZR1 and CTS-V guys have been replacing them during pulley swaps and snout porting.
    http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...9&postcount=30
    The CTS-V videos they show some pretty gnarly damage caused by the "spring loaded" isolator, which in turn is scattering metal shavings.
    http://www.lingenfelter.com/LPEforum...&p=412#post412
    During the supercharger pulley upgrade for the 2009 C6 ZR1 we include the Lingenfelter solid isolator coupling to replace the factory spring loaded isolator coupling. The factory spring loaded coupling design can sometime cause a rattle at idle or partial throttle plus we have seen some signs of wear on the shaft from the stock spring loaded isolators. This solid isolator coupling is made from a very durable high temperature plastic and is a direct replacement to the original isolator.

    Here is the Lingenfelter version on the left and the stock on the right.



    Picture of the stock one installed on disassembly.



    New solid isolator going in to housing.


    This is a how to video to change the isolator the car has only 2000miles on it and it also shows wear on the shaft (also goes on to explain this is the reason for the rattling noise.....also shows how easily the spring can move within the isolator itself)
    Last edited by GenF-GTS; 16-02-2014 at 03:05 PM.

    2014 HSV GenF-GTS fitted with a Forced Induction Interchiller
    http://www.facebook.com/ForcedInductionInterchillers
    Australia's outright Fastest VF GTS & Fastest 6.2L 1900LSA with a stock bottom end
    9.700 @145.22mph 21/June/2017
    V-Box Results 0-100km/h in 2.47sec

    Looking for colder IAT's? we have achieved 11c IAT2 on a 41c day and -8c during winter.
    We have proven cabin AC vent temps are better than GM spec, both IAT2's and vent temps are all on video with nothing to hide.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
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    4,598
    This is from a dealer in the US

    PIP4523D: Marble Type rattle Noise At Idle From The Supercharger - Potential Noise Characteristic - (Jan 11, 2012)

    Subject: Marble Type Rattle Noise at Idle from the Supercharger - Potential Noise Characteristic

    Models: 2009-2012 Cadillac CTS-V 2009-2012 Chevrolet ZR1

    with 6.2L Supercharged Engine (RPO LS9 or LSA) with 6.2L Supercharged Engine (RPO LS9 or LSA)

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This PI was superseded to update model years. Please discard PIP4523C.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.

    Condition/Concern:
    A supercharger noise may be experienced at idle that sounds like marbles rolling around in the supercharger. Some may also describe this as an erratic rattle-type noise that sounds similar to combustion noise on a diesel engine.

    This noise will only be heard at idle and it will go away when the RPM is raised off of idle slightly. Typically, the hood will have to be open to hear the noise outside of the vehicle or the vehicle will have to be parked next to a wall (ie...restaurant drive-thru, etc) to hear it from inside the passenger compartment.

    When comparing this noise to other vehicles, it may be noted that other vehicles exhibit the same noise at idle but some are louder/quieter than others.

    This noise may be mistaken for a bad supercharger bearing, which may lead to unnecessary supercharger replacement, but it is most likely a normal noise characteristic of the torsional isolator at idle.

    Recommendation/Instructions:
    If the noise above is experienced, perform the diagnostic steps below:
    •Park in an open area with the hood and windows closed.
    •With the engine at operating temperature, raise the RPM to 1200 RPM and re-evaluate the noise while sitting inside of the vehicle.

    If the noise is no longer present, this should be considered a normal noise characteristic of the supercharger - do not replace the supercharger in an attempt to repair this noise.

    If the noise is still present, allow the engine to cool, temporarily remove the supercharger belt, and listen to the noise again. If the noise was present at 1200 RPM with the belt on but is gone with the supercharger belt removed, replace the supercharger by following SI procedures and re-evaluate the concern.

    Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.

    2014 HSV GenF-GTS fitted with a Forced Induction Interchiller
    http://www.facebook.com/ForcedInductionInterchillers
    Australia's outright Fastest VF GTS & Fastest 6.2L 1900LSA with a stock bottom end
    9.700 @145.22mph 21/June/2017
    V-Box Results 0-100km/h in 2.47sec

    Looking for colder IAT's? we have achieved 11c IAT2 on a 41c day and -8c during winter.
    We have proven cabin AC vent temps are better than GM spec, both IAT2's and vent temps are all on video with nothing to hide.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    4,598
    Stock CTS-V Super Charger rattle at idle


    2014 HSV GenF-GTS fitted with a Forced Induction Interchiller
    http://www.facebook.com/ForcedInductionInterchillers
    Australia's outright Fastest VF GTS & Fastest 6.2L 1900LSA with a stock bottom end
    9.700 @145.22mph 21/June/2017
    V-Box Results 0-100km/h in 2.47sec

    Looking for colder IAT's? we have achieved 11c IAT2 on a 41c day and -8c during winter.
    We have proven cabin AC vent temps are better than GM spec, both IAT2's and vent temps are all on video with nothing to hide.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    4,598
    http://dcautogeek.com/?p=2038

    Has GM ‘Shafted’ Cadillac CTS-V Owners?

    Like most second generation CTS-V owners, I’ve come to terms that to own the ‘fastest sedan in the world’ I have to endure a sound that can only be described as a can full of marbles, being tossed-about under the hood.

    Several CTS-V owners have experienced this issue which resulted in General Motors releasing a Technical Service Bulletin (TSB: PIP4523A) which basically states: the rattle is normal, take your $73,000 car and live with it.

    CTS-V owners, like most performance vehicle owners, are very active online. Owners took to the forums to discuss and share their displeasure with ‘the rattle’. They made enough noise that in November of 2009, it prompted Ed Piatek then Program Engineering Manager on the CTS-V to step in and clarify a few facts. Below is the response Ed provided to members of CadillacForums.com:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Piatek
    I’m Ed Piatek and I’m the Program Engineering Manager on the CTS-V. I recognize that this forum represents the thoughts and experiences of some very passionate owners and enthusiasts, and appropriately many of us on the engineering team periodically review this and other forums to keep our finger on the pulse of this important group.

    While we cannot respond or comment on every post or question, the number of comments and degree of inaccurate information around supercharger shaft wear merits an engineering response to set the record straight, and assuage any concerns of our V series owners. Here is the response from our engine experts:

    The torsional isolator is used in the CTSv LSA engine to isolate potential gear rattle noise during idle. The isolator contains a torsional spring that fits over the shaft. Purpose of the shaft is to distribute the stresses in the torsional spring. As the spring goes thru its travel, the inside of the coils can contact the shaft. The spring material is intentionally harder than the shaft which by design results in visual witness marks and/or limited wear on the shaft. The witness marks and/or limited wear is expected and has been observed on all the Eaton component durability tests, GM engine and vehicle durability tests and on customer vehicles with no impact on the functionality of the spring and isolator. The shaft and isolator are in a sealed cavity, separate from the rest of the supercharger and engine.

    Q: Will this shaft wear harm my engine?

    A: No. The visible wear will not damage the engine. The supercharger and the engine were tested and successfully validated to meet all GM durability requirements…which are much more severe than any customer usage.

    Q: What causes this wear?

    A: The isolator contains a torsional spring that fits over the shaft. The purpose of the shaft is to better distribute the stresses in the torsional spring and prolong its life. As the spring goes thru its travel, the inside of the coils can contact the shaft. The spring is a harder material than the shaft…so that when there is contact, the spring will not potentially break. If the spring breaks, then the torsional isolator function is lost.
    The following pictures show in detail the wear described above by the Cadillac engineers and was provided by member Heavy H2O of CadillacForums.com:







    In the picture above the GM isolator is the one on the left and the community-sourced isolator (aka ‘The Fix‘) is on the right.

    DIY to the Rescue


    In an effort to resolve the problem, CTS-V owners created their own fix – installing a solid isolator without the abrasive metal spring inside. And whatta ya know – silence! (or as silent as a supercharged 6.2 liter can be). This also means the shaft is no longer being disintegrated.

    Why didn’t GM address this issue earlier? It could be because the supercharger is sourced directly from Eaton assembled. As I was told by a GM service tech, “we are prohibited from taking apart that supercharger.”

    It’s also important to note that many service managers have explained to customers that any further damage to the supercharger could not be covered under warranty, if the owner opened up the supercharger and installed a non-GM part. Like the solid isolator above.

    2014 HSV GenF-GTS fitted with a Forced Induction Interchiller
    http://www.facebook.com/ForcedInductionInterchillers
    Australia's outright Fastest VF GTS & Fastest 6.2L 1900LSA with a stock bottom end
    9.700 @145.22mph 21/June/2017
    V-Box Results 0-100km/h in 2.47sec

    Looking for colder IAT's? we have achieved 11c IAT2 on a 41c day and -8c during winter.
    We have proven cabin AC vent temps are better than GM spec, both IAT2's and vent temps are all on video with nothing to hide.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    4,598
    Here is the link for the how to guide from Lingenfelter https://www.lingenfelter.com/sites/l...Kit%20v1.7.pdf

    2014 HSV GenF-GTS fitted with a Forced Induction Interchiller
    http://www.facebook.com/ForcedInductionInterchillers
    Australia's outright Fastest VF GTS & Fastest 6.2L 1900LSA with a stock bottom end
    9.700 @145.22mph 21/June/2017
    V-Box Results 0-100km/h in 2.47sec

    Looking for colder IAT's? we have achieved 11c IAT2 on a 41c day and -8c during winter.
    We have proven cabin AC vent temps are better than GM spec, both IAT2's and vent temps are all on video with nothing to hide.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Newcastle
    Posts
    2,481
    Why not install a Titanium sleeve over the shaft? Would accomplish the same fix, allow use of original spring and minimise or even eradicate wear of the shaft itself? And minimise the noise issue. The problem seems to be the shaft material is a softer metal composition to that of the spring therefore one wears down the other. I wonder if manufactured that way (in a sort of manner) to limit spring wear and failure??
    Last edited by Senator01; 16-02-2014 at 04:53 PM.
    '06 VZ Senator 4A - 416
    '10 E3 Senator 6M - 26
    '06 VZ S2 R8 Maloo 4A - 31







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