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damo90
16-02-2012, 01:39 PM
G'day guys
first post here. To all the big cam blokes out there im looking for something that sounds like an 'old school' V8 (big lumpy choppy rough...etc). Dont care about drivability cos its going to be a weekender. Im looking for something around the 330RWKW mark. Current mods are VCM OTR, 25% underdrive, full exhuast (pacemaker headers on to a 3" mild xforce). Its a manual 6 too. What type of cam profiles do you suggest and what brands?

Some profiles ive looked into are 227 242, 231 247, 232 238. They sound exactly what im after but dunno if they make the power.

Any suggestions would be awesome.

Cheers.

dannym81
16-02-2012, 02:58 PM
G'day mate and welcome.
This is a reply that I got from my post for my blown maloo. Any feedback is good feedback. This is a top forum with some really good opinions.

I can highly recommend that mate, I got an isky cam 224/230 600 lift 114 lsa.<br />
Still good manners, nice lumpy idle and works well with the blower.<br />
I take it you have already done headers, cats, 3" exhaust etc?<br />
Cheers Greg.

damo90
16-02-2012, 04:53 PM
thanks for the reply bud and cheers for the warm welcome. i look forward to hearing everyones different opinion. Is there something more aggressive than that cam that others have used? would love to hear from several blokes.

CHeers

macca33
16-02-2012, 07:20 PM
There is a lot more to camshaft selection than the duration @ .050".

Where do you want your power - low/mid or mid/high - you can only choose one? How high are you prepared to spin the engine? What type of driving will you be doing? What type of clutch are you going to put in once the oem one cries foul? What diff ratio are you running? Are you prepared to put up with doughy sub-3000rpm manners and a car that will hate idling through a town, or at low speeds but which makes peak power by 7000rpm, or do you want a car which is tractable, strong on the street and makes its power by 6000rpm?

So many questions and you haven't even begun to make a critical ***essment.

damo90
16-02-2012, 08:00 PM
Thanks for the reply macca33, ive answered your questions here. i hope this narrows down a direction you can point me towards.

power: mid/high
Driving type: Weekender/track
Clutch: aftermarket Heavy duty
Diff ratio: standard 3.77 correct me if im wrong
Drivability: not fussed if i lose a fair bit of torque down low, its the compromise i have to make if i want mid- top end power anyways.
I want a "car which is tractable, strong on the street and makes its power by 6000rpm"

macca33
16-02-2012, 08:34 PM
Thanks for the reply macca33, ive answered your questions here. i hope this narrows down a direction you can point me towards.

power: mid/high
Driving type: Weekender/track
Clutch: aftermarket Heavy duty
Diff ratio: standard 3.77 correct me if im wrong
Drivability: not fussed if i lose a fair bit of torque down low, its the compromise i have to make if i want mid- top end power anyways.
I want a "car which is tractable, strong on the street and makes its power by 6000rpm"



Those two sentences, unless you choose VERY wisely, will almost never eventuate, as they are mutually exclusive with camshafts - to a degree.

Losing bottom end torque, takes drivability away with it - due to the inherent nature of large duration, large-overlap camshafts.

I would suggest that you speak to a workshop, go for a ride in some cammed LS3s and then choose. Any other way and you'll only be guessing.

cheers

damo90
16-02-2012, 08:42 PM
to be honest i confused myself with those two sentences you were referring to. I understand its a "one or the other" type of situation.

Thanks for the help though

Sniper
16-02-2012, 08:42 PM
I would suggest that you speak to a workshop, go for a ride in some cammed LS3s and then choose. Any other way and you'll only be guessing.

cheers

What part of OZ are you in . . . then we may be able to send you in the right direction

damo90
16-02-2012, 08:45 PM
melbourne, VIC...

Sniper
16-02-2012, 09:17 PM
melbourne, VIC...

If you are West . . . drop into GM Motorsport at Melton. . . . if you are east . . . I'll leave it to Macca to make a recomendation!!

rodders188
16-02-2012, 09:20 PM
Bigger the cam, the more stress on the valvetrain. VCM V7 might acheive your goals. I'd gofor a few drives first before you get one as too much cam will ruin the car

macca33
16-02-2012, 10:07 PM
If you are West . . . drop into GM Motorsport at Melton. . . . if you are east . . . I'll leave it to Macca to make a recomendation!!



I'd heartily recommend Autotechnique in Knoxfield and Chev's in Carrum Downs and APS in Funkytown.

If you live further east, I know a good ***** fella in Warragul who is performing some great work of late.

cheers

damo90
16-02-2012, 11:26 PM
so all those workshops have cammed V8's that i could listen to/test drive? im in the northern suburbs but dont mind driving around to get a performance mechs opinion.

Cheers fellas

dannym81
17-02-2012, 08:38 AM
Jnr engine developments in seaford have done all my work and I couldn't be happier. He's a mate so let me know if you want his number.

damo90
17-02-2012, 10:34 AM
yea why not, PM me his details. Just checked the website, they seem pretty switched on which is always good.

LS3 050
17-02-2012, 10:34 AM
so all those workshops have cammed V8's that i could listen to/test drive? im in the northern suburbs but dont mind driving around to get a performance mechs opinion.

Cheers fellas

If you ring and ask to check out some cammed cars, they will track some down and arange for you to have a look.

bradwil
17-02-2012, 09:20 PM
G'day guys
first post here. To all the big cam blokes out there im looking for something that sounds like an 'old school' V8 (big lumpy choppy rough...etc). Dont care about drivability cos its going to be a weekender. Im looking for something around the 330RWKW mark. Current mods are VCM OTR, 25% underdrive, full exhuast (pacemaker headers on to a 3" mild xforce). Its a manual 6 too. What type of cam profiles do you suggest and what brands?

Some profiles ive looked into are 227 242, 231 247, 232 238. They sound exactly what im after but dunno if they make the power.

Any suggestions would be awesome.

Cheers.

Hi

I've got the Vauxhall VXR8 in the UK with an LS2 auto. I've just changed my cam to the mutha thumpr which has 227/241 109LSA. I've got a short clip of the idle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0N3D6ButEE&feature=youtube_gdata_player
The car is being tuned by OZtrack remotely and i've only got a VCM otr and an X-Force 3" catback.
If you can wait another week I'll let you know how much the changes have made for me as stock it produced 320RWHP and I'll be testing on the same dyno and same operator although the temperature will be a bit cooler this time.

damo90
18-02-2012, 10:10 PM
hey mate audio quality wasnt that great but the uneven idle sounds exactly what im after. Ive had a look at comp cams new range of thumpr cams and they seem like the way to go, ill just have to get it shipped over as i dont think theres a supplier here in AUS. Yeah please let me know when the cars fully finished, id really love to hear the results.
Cheers.

MalooMan
19-02-2012, 12:05 PM
Hey Damo90 keep this thread going mate im goin through same stuff as you atm lookin at puttin a cam in the maloo mines ls2 shouldnt make much difference though cheers

bradwil
19-02-2012, 09:27 PM
Hey Damo90 keep this thread going mate im goin through same stuff as you atm lookin at puttin a cam in the maloo mines ls2 shouldnt make much difference though cheers

Well with my bigger cam in my LS2, i showed a cammed LS3 clean exhaust tips...the difference in ls2 and ls3 is 10KW...easily made up with the cam.

bradwil
19-02-2012, 09:36 PM
hey mate audio quality wasnt that great but the uneven idle sounds exactly what im after. Ive had a look at comp cams new range of thumpr cams and they seem like the way to go, ill just have to get it shipped over as i dont think theres a supplier here in AUS. Yeah please let me know when the cars fully finished, id really love to hear the results.
Cheers.
They are pretty good on their online chat. I'm sure there should be a dealer in OZ. I bought mine straight from them as well after chatting to them.

MalooMan
23-02-2012, 09:40 PM
Hey Bradwil any chance you can tell me cam specs wat ur ride is cheers mate any info's good for me atm

damo90
24-02-2012, 06:57 PM
Bradwil just wanna let u know i did the online chat thing comp cams has and i couldnt have asked for better advice, he asked a couple of questions and within 5 minutes i had the part number of the cam i was after. Thanks for suggesting it in the first place. Ill be getting a (235/251 .621/.624) 113 LSA

macca33
24-02-2012, 08:47 PM
Bradwil just wanna let u know i did the online chat thing comp cams has and i couldnt have asked for better advice, he asked a couple of questions and within 5 minutes i had the part number of the cam i was after. Thanks for suggesting it in the first place. Ill be getting a (235/251 .621/.624) 113 LSA


Did you tell the bloke that you have a car that weighs 4200lbs, or does he suspect that you are putting this into a 'vette???

Way, WAY too much cam for you my friend.....good luck and enjoy your time at the bowser, as well as near zero low-speed driveability!

People are making 330rwkW with 230-odd duration camshafts in M6 LS3 engines BTW.

cheers

damo90
24-02-2012, 09:50 PM
im pretty sure its more like 3900lbs but thats besides the point. look i was just after some solid advice, i made it clear to the bloke i was from AUS and what car i had, and thats what he suggested. like i asked in the first place if you've got a better cam for my application then please suggest it! if your just gonna critizise dont bother posting.

rodders188
24-02-2012, 10:03 PM
If i recall reading on a camaro forum, some guy with the comp cam you are getting, was complaining that it lacked the lope at idle that alot of smaller 230 dur cams have. Mid to high 220's cam will beat that cam all day and every day on the street.

macca33
24-02-2012, 11:34 PM
im pretty sure its more like 3900lbs but thats besides the point. look i was just after some solid advice, i made it clear to the bloke i was from AUS and what car i had, and thats what he suggested. like i asked in the first place if you've got a better cam for my application then please suggest it! if your just gonna critizise dont bother posting.


If you're not going to listen to advice, then why would one bother to provide it? It appears that you hardly know what you want anyway, as your 'specifications' for what type of cam you would like simply will not exist in the real world. Have you ACTUALLY contacted one of the mentioned workshops for some information, or do you feel that the internet will provide all and install the cam / tune the car.

If it is an 'uneven' idle that you're looking for, I'm sure a few tweaks to the desired airflow and spark advance in the idle cells will get you there - no camshaft required......as has been blatantly pointed out, camshafts have an effect upon an angine that extends far beyond just a lumpy idle, but I'm sure the bloke from Comp told you that also.

If you do not wish to take advice from me, then at least listen to what Rodders has to say..

You can lead a horse to water.....

damo90
27-02-2012, 07:35 PM
Cheers. i will take into account what both of you have said. i havnt got the cam as of yet, so i will seek more performance shops advice and what not.

bradwil
28-02-2012, 01:44 PM
Hi guys
So...after running my car on the dyno i went from 320rwhp to and amazing 346rwhp...if you want power then don't choose the cam I got! Mutha Thumper got the idle but not the power.
I'm not sure how much difference headers/extractors and hi-flow cats would make (maybe + 20rwhp). Still got to buy and fit mine. It's obviously recommended with the cam spec.
It's got the sound and the shake but not much power. Although it does perform better than before on the road.(maybe down to the tune)
Also the cam spec does mention a 9:1 compression ratio whereas stock is about 10.5:1...again not sure how much difference this will make...I know supercharged and turbo'ed car run at that compression.
Also with an LS3 head it flows better than the LS2 so might be a few more hores out the cam.

Have you tried Oztrack? He might have a few solutions...

macca33
28-02-2012, 03:05 PM
Hi guys
So...after running my car on the dyno i went from 320rwhp to and amazing 346rwhp...if you want power then don't choose the cam I got! Mutha Thumper got the idle but not the power.
I'm not sure how much difference headers/extractors and hi-flow cats would make (maybe + 20rwhp). Still got to buy and fit mine. It's obviously recommended with the cam spec.
It's got the sound and the shake but not much power. Although it does perform better than before on the road.(maybe down to the tune)
Also the cam spec does mention a 9:1 compression ratio whereas stock is about 10.5:1...again not sure how much difference this will make...I know supercharged and turbo'ed car run at that compression.
Also with an LS3 head it flows better than the LS2 so might be a few more hores out the cam.

Have you tried Oztrack? He might have a few solutions...


Something sounds VERY wrong there mate - whilst I reckon that is a poor grind (for a number of reasons) I would've expected better than a 25rwhp gain. Is it properly dialled-in? Was the car run on the same dyno before and after? Was the tune optimised to suit the newly altered engine? Extractors will make a difference, but, even with stock headers, 25rwhp is not good. How high are you revving the engine - I would've thought you'd need to spin it to at least 6500-7000rpm for that cam to work.

Dunno about this 9:1 SCR quote either - putting this cam into an LS3 with 10.5:1 SCR shouldn't be an issue.

Something definitely amiss - I hope you get it sorted out.

bradwil
01-03-2012, 01:07 PM
Something sounds VERY wrong there mate - whilst I reckon that is a poor grind (for a number of reasons) I would've expected better than a 25rwhp gain. Is it properly dialled-in? Was the car run on the same dyno before and after? Was the tune optimised to suit the newly altered engine? Extractors will make a difference, but, even with stock headers, 25rwhp is not good. How high are you revving the engine - I would've thought you'd need to spin it to at least 6500-7000rpm for that cam to work.

Dunno about this 9:1 SCR quote either - putting this cam into an LS3 with 10.5:1 SCR shouldn't be an issue.

Something definitely amiss - I hope you get it sorted out.

I know what you saying...I was thinking the same too. I can't believe it's picked up so little...really wierd.
I would have thought it woulda picked that up with a intake/exhaust/tune combo...
I was wondering if it was degreed properly when fitted. Do you think this could be the problem? Is there anyway of telling if it's out?

The dyno runs were on the same dyno and done by the same person.
The car has been remote tuned by Oztrack. Although it was running a bit rich (this has been changed now).
The car definitely feels stronger and revs to about 6800 I think...have to keep both eyes on the road.

bradwil
01-03-2012, 01:09 PM
Hey Bradwil any chance you can tell me cam specs wat ur ride is cheers mate any info's good for me atm

It's the Mutha Thumpr from comp cams. I've got the 2007 VXR8 LS2 AUTO. It has a 3" stainless catback Varex XForce and VCM OTR intake. The cam is 227/241 109LSA.

macca33
01-03-2012, 02:47 PM
I know what you saying...I was thinking the same too. I can't believe it's picked up so little...really wierd.
I would have thought it woulda picked that up with a intake/exhaust/tune combo...
I was wondering if it was degreed properly when fitted. Do you think this could be the problem? Is there anyway of telling if it's out?

The dyno runs were on the same dyno and done by the same person.
The car has been remote tuned by Oztrack. Although it was running a bit rich (this has been changed now).
The car definitely feels stronger and revs to about 6800 I think...have to keep both eyes on the road.


It could very well be a degreeing problem - do you have a copy of the dyno sheet you could post? What are your AFRs at WOT - rich / lean perhaps? Only way to tell if the cam is properly installed would be to pull the timing cover and physically look. Cam could also be ground incorrectly - it should have been dialled-in to check valve events during the installation.

Were valvesprings / pushrods also changed to suit the new cam?

As I said - there is definitely a problem somewhere - you are correct - a tune and intake / exhaust mods would gain you 25hp EASILY. Are the cats / exhaust okay, they may be blocked???

Hopefully you can sort it out.

bradwil
02-03-2012, 09:48 PM
33963395

Here's the dyno graph.
The first file is stock(red) and the second is with the cam/catback/otr(blue)

macca33
02-03-2012, 11:57 PM
bradwil - it is running a bit rich with AFRs below 12:1, which may be hurting the top end, but, I still reckon there is some other issue - mechanical perhaps. The blue trace (new cam run) flattens out around 6000rpm - I would expect it to keep climbing until at least 6500rpm with a cam of that nature.

Have a look at the attached dyno graph of a car which had the cam originally fitted one tooth off on the timing - see how it really flattened off at the top end. The cam was then set up properly and the power rose accordingly. Was the cam installed by a mechanic and were the timing / valve events checked properly with a degree wheel?


http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k339/macsen8r/Miscellaneous/03SigDyno230506222224Cam.jpg


In the end, if the camshaft timing is correct - it could simply fall to the fact that you are running the oem cats / headers and that may be your next area to explore - drop the cat-back and cats and see whether the car responds.

Have you been able to log the car to see what it is doing? Are you getting any knock?

macca33
03-03-2012, 02:55 PM
brdwil - just further to the last, I have a program called Dynosim and have used it extensively to design my own camshafts in the past with success.

I've just plugged the specs in for the Comp Big Mutha Thumpr camshaft vs a stock cammed engine and have to say that unless you are using - at least 376ci(6.2lt)+ capacity - I'd prefer 400ci+, BIG static compression 11.5:1+, BIG exhaust - 1 7/8" 4-1s with hi-flow cats, twin 3" cat-back and BIG intake manifold, ie FAST 102mm (at least), you will make next to no more power on a stock LS2 engine - indeed, the 26 extra Hp you made is probably very fortunate. It also has very mild lift at ~.550", as you simply wouldn't be able to stuff more camshaft into the car with those specs!!! You'd also have to spin it to the moon, ie 7000+rpm to achieve anything.

I hate to say it, but you've over-cammed your engine to the extreme. :( That cam would, in all reality, only be suited to a 414ci+ engine with a dual-plane style manifold, with a 4BBl electronic throttle body - the low lsa of that camshaft kind of intimates that, as the dual pane manifolds like cubes and a tight lsa.

My personal recommendation - remove that cam and put in its place a nice off the shelf Comp 232/234 @112lsa, or one of their LSr series - the 231/239 cam - it looks quite nice, Part No. 54-459-11.

cheers and good luck.

rodders188
03-03-2012, 05:42 PM
The cam i would say is designed for the owner who wants that big cammy idle more so than out right performance

macca33
03-03-2012, 07:37 PM
The cam i would say is designed for the owner who wants that big cammy idle more so than out right performance

I agree with your thoughts there Rodders, but not only does it return poor performance, it will drink juice like there is no tomorrow and the cammy idle can be achieved with a lot less duration, in any event.

bradwil
04-03-2012, 10:07 AM
Ok. So basically i didn't do my research properly. I'm gonna change the cam but hopefully get the extractors and de-cat the exhaust. http://www.hsvforum.com.au/images/smilies/icon_mad.gif:-x

bradwil
04-03-2012, 10:20 AM
bradwil - it is running a bit rich with AFRs below 12:1, which may be hurting the top end, but, I still reckon there is some other issue - mechanical perhaps. The blue trace (new cam run) flattens out around 6000rpm - I would expect it to keep climbing until at least 6500rpm with a cam of that nature.

Have a look at the attached dyno graph of a car which had the cam originally fitted one tooth off on the timing - see how it really flattened off at the top end. The cam was then set up properly and the power rose accordingly. Was the cam installed by a mechanic and were the timing / valve events checked properly with a degree wheel?


http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k339/macsen8r/Miscellaneous/03SigDyno230506222224Cam.jpg


In the end, if the camshaft timing is correct - it could simply fall to the fact that you are running the oem cats / headers and that may be your next area to explore - drop the cat-back and cats and see whether the car responds.

Have you been able to log the car to see what it is doing? Are you getting any knock?

Well the guys who fitted the cam is the prefered tuner in the UK. He does he's own cams and setups. I would've expected it to have been done properly.
I've been doing a remote tuning via Oztrack. Haven't done a log after the latest update which is to lean it out a bit.

macca33
04-03-2012, 11:47 AM
Fair enough Brrad - I wasn't querying the installer's skills, just trying to eliminate possibilities. If I were you, I'd speak to Oztrack and see some of the results he's achieved - with vastly milder camshafts, otherwise, I'll stick by my cam recommendations - either the 232/234 or 231/239 will be good in your LS2, with a nice 3200-3500rpm stall converter - and much more practical!

cheers

rodders188
05-03-2012, 01:43 AM
227/234 .614/.612" 111LSA +2 advance Comp LSL lobes on the intake for maximum power and the LXL lobes on the exhaust for increased stability and reduced valvetrain noise. This cam is a maximum power under the curve profile with strong torque over a very broad power band. Max Torque cam

macca33
05-03-2012, 08:36 AM
227/234 .614/.612" 111LSA +2 advance Comp LSL lobes on the intake for maximum power and the LXL lobes on the exhaust for increased stability and reduced valvetrain noise. This cam is a maximum power under the curve profile with strong torque over a very broad power band. Max Torque cam


Would do the job well and is more like the style of cam I'd pick if I had a 6lt engine.

rodders188
05-03-2012, 09:26 AM
Would do the job well and is more like the style of cam I'd pick if I had a 6lt engine.

Its designed primary for a LS3 Rectangular head , i asked for a cam for maximum torque/area under the curve power for LS3, along with a moderate chop at idle. That is the cam spec's Pat G gave me. Unsure if it would be as effective in a LS2.

macca33
05-03-2012, 10:31 AM
Its designed primary for a LS3 Rectangular head , i asked for a cam for maximum torque/area under the curve power for LS3, along with a moderate chop at idle. That is the cam spec's Pat G gave me. Unsure if it would be as effective in a LS2.

It'll be just as effective in an LS2 - at least 30hp gain at the top end and very nice torque throughout the rev-range - remembering that the LS2 came out with a decent camshaft to begin with, unlike the L98, which was hamstrung, because they couldn't have a Holden engine outdoing a HSV engine when they were being sold side by side (L98 vs LS2).....lol The oem LS3 cam is similar to the oem LS2 cam, but the LS3 has the benefit of 12 extra cubic inches, and the L92 heads.

cheers

bradwil
07-03-2012, 12:12 AM
Fair enough Brrad - I wasn't querying the installer's skills, just trying to eliminate possibilities. If I were you, I'd speak to Oztrack and see some of the results he's achieved - with vastly milder camshafts, otherwise, I'll stick by my cam recommendations - either the 232/234 or 231/239 will be good in your LS2, with a nice 3200-3500rpm stall converter - and much more practical!

cheers

Hi Macca33

Thanks for your advice. I understand what you're saying about elimination. I doubted the tuner myself as he has his own special cam designs which produces more power than mine and p***es the emissions tests in the UK...so at the dyno shootout it really showed me up...you know with having my cam choice and not going with one of his secret cam designs.
This is really such a mine field really. I'm gonna do the headers and decat pipes and most probably gonna change the cam a bit later...most probably go with one of oztrack designs as he has a fair bit of experience.
I really like the idle of my cam and when I went to choose it , I actually chose it for that "old school" sound. I just didn't expect it not to produce any gains really.
I'll see how I feel after the exhaust change/tune...I'm never gonna have the best or fastest V8 out there...and I'm not going to be changing heads or intakes (although I would love to stroke it)...
So who knows, I might be happy after that...we'll see and I'll keep you guys updated with the info!!!
Thanks once again for your help and advice.
To the original poster...sorry if I hijacked your thread...

damo90
07-03-2012, 12:27 AM
Hi Macca33

Thanks for your advice. I understand what you're saying about elimination. I doubted the tuner myself as he has his own special cam designs which produces more power than mine and p***es the emissions tests in the UK...so at the dyno shootout it really showed me up...you know with having my cam choice and not going with one of his secret cam designs.
This is really such a mine field really. I'm gonna do the headers and decat pipes and most probably gonna change the cam a bit later...most probably go with one of oztrack designs as he has a fair bit of experience.
I really like the idle of my cam and when I went to choose it , I actually chose it for that "old school" sound. I just didn't expect it not to produce any gains really.
I'll see how I feel after the exhaust change/tune...I'm never gonna have the best or fastest V8 out there...and I'm not going to be changing heads or intakes (although I would love to stroke it)...
So who knows, I might be happy after that...we'll see and I'll keep you guys updated with the info!!!
Thanks once again for your help and advice.
To the original poster...sorry if I hijacked your thread...

No worries Brad, most of us are here to learn, i was just sitting back and letting the big boys take over anyways. good luck with the rest of your mods.

macca33
07-03-2012, 09:02 AM
Hi Macca33

Thanks for your advice. I understand what you're saying about elimination. I doubted the tuner myself as he has his own special cam designs which produces more power than mine and p***es the emissions tests in the UK...so at the dyno shootout it really showed me up...you know with having my cam choice and not going with one of his secret cam designs.
This is really such a mine field really. I'm gonna do the headers and decat pipes and most probably gonna change the cam a bit later...most probably go with one of oztrack designs as he has a fair bit of experience.
I really like the idle of my cam and when I went to choose it , I actually chose it for that "old school" sound. I just didn't expect it not to produce any gains really.
I'll see how I feel after the exhaust change/tune...I'm never gonna have the best or fastest V8 out there...and I'm not going to be changing heads or intakes (although I would love to stroke it)...
So who knows, I might be happy after that...we'll see and I'll keep you guys updated with the info!!!
Thanks once again for your help and advice.
To the original poster...sorry if I hijacked your thread...


Fair enough mate. As I said, Steve has had a fair amount of success, although he does have his detractors over here. I certainly wouldn't be buying a camshaft from anyone who was not prepared to supply the cam card with the stick. What is indisputable, though, is the fact that he has really pioneered the remote tuning scene.

VYSHSV8
07-03-2012, 12:50 PM
Fair enough mate. As I said, Steve has had a fair amount of success, although he does have his detractors over here. I certainly wouldn't be buying a camshaft from anyone who was not prepared to supply the cam card with the stick. What is indisputable, though, is the fact that he has really pioneered the remote tuning scene.
Thats a nice way of putting it mate :)
The big Band theory just comes to mind, if you don't keep a good eye on things, but having said that I have a mate that has had success with his tune but it wasnt remote it was on a dyno dione by him, but also have a mate that has remote tune by him that I installed a cam for and first base run was getting m***ive knock at 50% throttle but seems to be sorted now and put down 360rwhp through a 3600 stall at a dyno day last yr but I havent seen his log of the latest update yet....so might have to catch up and see what is happening on the lappy

surfwagon
07-03-2012, 04:19 PM
I have one of Oztracks StealthII cams fitted, dynoed and some road fine tuning by steve and am pretty happy with the end result.
Yes he keeps his specs to himself but the StealthII is around a mid to high 220's cam about 227 and works with stock stally.

bradwil
08-03-2012, 06:51 AM
No worries Brad, most of us are here to learn, i was just sitting back and letting the big boys take over anyways. good luck with the rest of your mods.

Thanks!

bradwil
08-03-2012, 07:06 AM
I have one of Oztracks StealthII cams fitted, dynoed and some road fine tuning by steve and am pretty happy with the end result.
Yes he keeps his specs to himself but the StealthII is around a mid to high 220's cam about 227 and works with stock stally.

Hi

Have you had yours on the dyno and which other mods do you have?
Ta

surfwagon
08-03-2012, 08:33 AM
Hi

Have you had yours on the dyno and which other mods do you have?
Ta

Yes the car went 307rwkw compared to 289 pre cam (same dyno), with the only change to the rest of the package was reverting back to 1.7 RRs for the stealthII, had 1.8's on the LS2 cam.
Other mods are 1 3/4 shorty extractors and 100cpi 3"in/out 4" body cats, std HSV catback (which is probably holding back outright power but I didn't want it loud), Dus OTR, 25% U/D balancer and Elite catch can (which helps keep oil out of the intake tract).

07GTS
08-03-2012, 08:42 PM
Yes the car went 307rwkw compared to 289 pre cam (same dyno), with the only change to the rest of the package was reverting back to 1.7 RRs for the stealthII, had 1.8's on the LS2 cam.
Other mods are 1 3/4 shorty extractors and 100cpi 3"in/out 4" body cats, std HSV catback (which is probably holding back outright power but I didn't want it loud), Dus OTR, 25% U/D balancer and Elite catch can (which helps keep oil out of the intake tract). was changing to 1.8 RR worth doing or would cost v power increse be worth just doing a cam instead...? i had the 1.8 RR in my old v6 and they made a decent difference in that so was thinkin might be good in the 6.0...

surfwagon
08-03-2012, 10:57 PM
was changing to 1.8 RR worth doing or would cost v power increse be worth just doing a cam instead...? i had the 1.8 RR in my old v6 and they made a decent difference in that so was thinkin might be good in the 6.0...

My tuner (Oztrack) said they are probably worth 8-10rwkw at best and I paid around $650 for them originally and fitted them myself so I believe thats not bad bang for your buck.
Its like the 25%UD balancers if like me you get it for under $400 and fit it yourself then a 3-4 rwkw gain isnt too bad for the money, after all every little bit helps.
The LS2 only has about .52# lift where as the LS6 cam with similar timing has .58#+ lift so the 1.8's bring the LS2 cam up to around LS6 specs.
But in saying all of this I did have a dip in my original pre cam power curve when the 1.8's were fitted that was attributed to weak or worn valve springs.
After I changed the springs I lost 1-2rwkw but the curve was smooth from bottom to top and actually gained a little down low.
It just cost me $2K to gain 18rwkw over what I had previously changing the cam and extra tuning.
I will recoup a little selling the LS2 cam and the 1.8 YT ultralite rockers.
So in short yes I think they are worthwhile as long as you don't like me change your mind later and decide to fit a cam.

07GTS
08-03-2012, 11:36 PM
My tuner (Oztrack) said they are probably worth 8-10rwkw at best and I paid around $650 for them originally and fitted them myself so I believe thats not bad bang for your buck.
Its like the 25%UD balancers if like me you get it for under $400 and fit it yourself then a 3-4 rwkw gain isnt too bad for the money, after all every little bit helps.
The LS2 only has about .52# lift where as the LS6 cam with similar timing has .58#+ lift so the 1.8's bring the LS2 cam up to around LS6 specs.
But in saying all of this I did have a dip in my original pre cam power curve when the 1.8's were fitted that was attributed to weak or worn valve springs.
After I changed the springs I lost 1-2rwkw but the curve was smooth from bottom to top and actually gained a little down low.
It just cost me $2K to gain 18rwkw over what I had previously changing the cam and extra tuning.
I will recoup a little selling the LS2 cam and the 1.8 YT ultralite rockers.
So in short yes I think they are worthwhile as long as you don't like me change your mind later and decide to fit a cam.
aaahh there is so many options and different ways to get power , i like ur thoughts on the stealth style, im kinda going that way too, have extractors high flow cats and 2.5 system into the standard hsv rear mufflers and its a good deep loud with the boot in but cruising at 100kph u cant even notice an exhaust and still makes good power... funny as when i bought this last year i said jees its enough power i wont need any more and now im doing mods and looking for more...

surfwagon
09-03-2012, 09:34 AM
aaahh there is so many options and different ways to get power , i like ur thoughts on the stealth style, im kinda going that way too, have extractors high flow cats and 2.5 system into the standard hsv rear mufflers and its a good deep loud with the boot in but cruising at 100kph u cant even notice an exhaust and still makes good power... funny as when i bought this last year i said jees its enough power i wont need any more and now im doing mods and looking for more...

Keeping it quiet when cruising was main aim for both highway and street use.
The HSV Z exhaust is slightly better than the VT-VY HSV as it has 3" secondaries and 2 1/2" middle section before dropping down to 2 1/4" like the earlier HSV's were right through and also the Z catback is straight through not offset.
Another restriction in all HSV VT-VZ catbacks is that the tail pipes are only 2 1/8" which I removed from the rear resonator which is 2 1/2" outlet and fitted full 2 1/2" tail pipes with polished 3" tips.
So with the extractors and Ballistic cats the exhaust is almost as good as any good full 2 1/2" catback.
I know what you mean about having enough power after a while you get so used to it and it starts to feel slow.

bradwil
18-04-2012, 10:03 PM
Hi guys

So just an update...I've fitted my 1 7/8 extractors and de-cat pipe and it's sounds mean and angry...
Will post video links when I can as it's loud and need to find a place to record the clip. Fortunately I have the switchable exhaust and it works a charm! Really silent when I close the valves...unbelievable transformation.
Will be putting it up for a power run and will post the results...unfortunately it won't be the same dyno so won't look too much into the result...mostly need it for the AFR.
The car feels like it's revving easier and quicker...might be all in the mind...dunno
But on the track next month will tell. I did a 1.5 mile run and managed a best 0-60mph 4.9sec and 0-100mph 11.5 sec...car maxed out before the end at 157.8 mph :mad: grip wasn't that good...
will be going another mile event at the end of may and will let you know then...

Oh yes the other issue I have with the extractors (not sure if anyone has experienced the same) is that under full throttle the extractors knock against the steering column...going to do a "fixit" this weekend. Had to replace my rubbers as well as the stainless system is heavier.

Until next time

bradwil
22-10-2012, 10:59 PM
Just an update...
Changed my cam from the mutha thumpr to the custom grind comp cams with higher lift and it has made a remarkable difference on the dyno.
Peaked at 389rwhp with is about 290rwkw. Not bad for an auto with full exhaust,otr and cam change.
Hopefully I can improve on my 12.7 on the 1/4 mile.

ESERI3S
23-10-2012, 04:51 AM
Why are there no mention of torque figures in these conversations? I was pretty keen on something similar to the VCM - 7 cam it makes the power but if you have a look at the torque figures theyre around the 780nm range on an ls2, thats what really makes you go fast and you'd be feeling all that torque theres no doubt about it!

macca33
23-10-2012, 08:56 AM
Just an update...
Changed my cam from the mutha thumpr to the custom grind comp cams with higher lift and it has made a remarkable difference on the dyno.
Peaked at 389rwhp with is about 290rwkw. Not bad for an auto with full exhaust,otr and cam change.
Hopefully I can improve on my 12.7 on the 1/4 mile.



What did you put in the car this time? I'm glad you've found the result you're looking for.

cheers

bradwil
23-10-2012, 11:08 AM
I can't seem to upload the dyno graphs.
The torque has gone up to around 364ftlb which is about 493nm at the wheels.

The cam is a comp cams 230/234 113lsa and the lift on exhaust and intake is just under .600.

VYSHSV8
23-10-2012, 11:59 AM
I can't seem to upload the dyno graphs.
The torque has gone up to around 392ftlb which is about 531nm at the wheels.

The cam is a comp cams 230/234 113lsa and the lift on exhaust and intake is just under .600.

You mean like this
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/VYSHSV8/VYmaidenrunondyno.jpg

Just go to photo bucket upload your photo and copy and paste image link


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk in the middle of Farkin no-where

bradwil
23-10-2012, 09:52 PM
The first is power and torque.
Second is power and AFR.
Third is previous cam vs new cam.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/amggjyaxdr73owf/dyno20102012.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kax5mqaq35h9fdb/dyno20102012a.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qd0cctept7b42tg/dyno20102012b.jpg

VYSHSV8
23-10-2012, 10:35 PM
Brad by the looks f it, its starting to get into lean territory so keep an eye on it or get another dyno run at another shop, just to see what the afr's are like ok just to be safe

bradwil
23-10-2012, 10:38 PM
Brad by the looks f it, its starting to get into lean territory so keep an eye on it or get another dyno run at another shop, just to see what the afr's are like ok just to be safe

Thanks. I have p***ed the results onto tuner, so i'm just waiting feedback.

07GTS
23-10-2012, 11:20 PM
yea best power is ment to be around 12.5-12.8 AFR after a tune i changed my intake and it pushed mine into the mid 13's AFR and i did loose a bit of power too so retune/tweek was required...

macca33
24-10-2012, 09:04 AM
Brad by the looks f it, its starting to get into lean territory so keep an eye on it or get another dyno run at another shop, just to see what the afr's are like ok just to be safe


Agree with this post Brad - they are a tad high - you'd want to be at around 12.8:1 at most for safety.

Good results though.

cheers

R8133
04-01-2013, 12:44 PM
Hi guys,
Have an LS3 with auto.
I'm after 320 + atw's.
It will be everyday driving and will be running with stock stall converter. I'm thinking of getting 232 234 what are your thoughts? Can I run stock converter and will it be a pig down low?

rodders188
04-01-2013, 11:43 PM
Hi guys,
Have an LS3 with auto.
I'm after 320 + atw's.
It will be everyday driving and will be running with stock stall converter. I'm thinking of getting 232 234 what are your thoughts? Can I run stock converter and will it be a pig down low?

Could be a tad big in a auto, although will sound mean, the noveilty may run out once you realsie the cam is a over kill in a street car. Have driven a VE SS with same spec cam, in a auto, no stall converter, took abit to get it going and really hits hard up top rev range. A smaller cam will burn less fuel, have better useable power and less wear and tear on the valvetrain. Ask yourself what rpm you mainly drive in and go from there..... Bigger isnt always better...

R8133
05-01-2013, 12:10 AM
Hi Rodders,
I have been doing a lot of research and reading a lot of Maccas post and came to the conclusion of getting a VCM 21 camshaft. It makes power to around 300rwkw max!

Most importantly my ve clubsport will be daily driven and l want a camshaft from 0 - 160kmph? Does this camshaft sound right? I would like power down low and midrange. I also would like a camshaft to be lumpy on idle what are your thoughts of this camshaft? Spoke to VCM and they recommend VCM 9 VCM 21 or VCM E5 I think it was.

He also recommended to go to autotechnique, as l have never been there before, do people have good experiences with autotechnique? If not l might get Chevs or APS to install the VCM camshaft? Thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Thanka

scottcmb
05-01-2013, 01:06 AM
Hi Rodders,
I have been doing a lot of research and reading a lot of Maccas post and came to the conclusion of getting a VCM 21 camshaft. It makes power to around 300rwkw max!

Most importantly my ve clubsport will be daily driven and l want a camshaft from 0 - 160kmph? Does this camshaft sound right? I would like power down low and midrange. I also would like a camshaft to be lumpy on idle what are your thoughts of this camshaft? Spoke to VCM and they recommend VCM 9 VCM 21 or VCM E5 I think it was.

He also recommended to go to autotechnique, as l have never been there before, do people have good experiences with autotechnique? If not l might get Chevs or APS to install the VCM camshaft? Thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Thanka

Go see the guys at APS.......they will guide you to a BIG smile on your face!

Cheers Scotty

LS3 050
05-01-2013, 10:40 AM
Hi Rodders,
I have been doing a lot of research and reading a lot of Maccas post and came to the conclusion of getting a VCM 21 camshaft. It makes power to around 300rwkw max!

Most importantly my ve clubsport will be daily driven and l want a camshaft from 0 - 160kmph? Does this camshaft sound right? I would like power down low and midrange. I also would like a camshaft to be lumpy on idle what are your thoughts of this camshaft? Spoke to VCM and they recommend VCM 9 VCM 21 or VCM E5 I think it was.

He also recommended to go to autotechnique, as l have never been there before, do people have good experiences with autotechnique? If not l might get Chevs or APS to install the VCM camshaft? Thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Thanka

Hi mate, send Sarge a PM. He has an E3 auto with the VCM 21 cam done at autotechnique. Ask him some questions he will help you out on this cam. I got the VCM 12 as i have a manual and this was done at autotechnique also. Love the cam and the guys there are very good at what they do. There are many here on the forum from melbourne area that use autotechnique and all you ever hear is good feedback.

rodders188
06-01-2013, 12:48 AM
Hi mate, send Sarge a PM. He has an E3 auto with the VCM 21 cam done at autotechnique. Ask him some questions he will help you out on this cam. I got the VCM 12 as i have a manual and this was done at autotechnique also. Love the cam and the guys there are very good at what they do. There are many here on the forum from melbourne area that use autotechnique and all you ever hear is good feedback.

Hi,
You really need to go for a drive in a few cammed auto LS3'sor LS2's to give you more of an idea of what to expect from a small cam as opposed to a big cam.
If it were mine id be looking at something like a 225/230 .617"/612" 112 or 114 LSA,
It is a minefield with decisions on what cam to choose at the endof the day , speak to Autotechnique and tell them exactly what you want, most importantly is the tune as its the heart and soul of the running of the engine. By the sounds of it Mario is the right man for the job

R8133
06-01-2013, 01:50 AM
I think that cam would be too big as mine is an auto. I do intend to keep the stock stall converter as I want low down and midrange punch but want a tough sounding cam at idle VCM 21??

Regarding the transmission do l have to tell the guys to tune the auto trans and to remove some torque management issue? I do have delay between gears.

white_lie
06-01-2013, 09:30 AM
A decent tuner will do that anyway.
If it goes to a reputable place like APS or autotechnique, I'd let them do their thing then take it for a drive when you pick it up. If it doesn't behave like you want it to then mention it to them. It's not a lengthy process to make adjustments like that and they should be able to do it before you leave. Same goes if you find something that you don't like about it after a week or two of driving it.

But torque management usually isn't used in power mode, or at least it wasn't in the older boxes... one reason why you shouldn't race with them in economy ;)

vyclubbyr8
07-01-2013, 12:57 PM
Hi guys,
Have an LS3 with auto.
I'm after 320 + atw's.
It will be everyday driving and will be running with stock stall converter. I'm thinking of getting 232 234 what are your thoughts? Can I run stock converter and will it be a pig down low?



I have an ls3 auto running 316rwkw 229 233 Cam with stock stall converter the only problem i find when i am at lights have to press on the brake harder then normal because the car wants to keep going other then that really happy with it.When i have the funds will definately upgrade the stall converter and diff ratio.