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nonchalant
03-11-2010, 05:20 PM
Hey y'all

I have a friend who lost her licence and is due to get it back soon (the court told her it was suspended for 12 mths and due back on 12/12/10) however she has just phoned the RTA who have told her it will be refused for an additional 4 mths when she reapplies for her licence on the 12th as she appealed her original penalty fines (and was unsuccessful). Has anyone heard of this before? It sounds like she has been dealt with by the court but the RTA has its own penalties also??

This is in NSW btw...

cheers

akanives
03-11-2010, 05:41 PM
ive not heard of that before.. im guessing being it was 12 months that it was for either a hooning offence or drink driving?

in any case there is often penalties for trying to fight things.
in AFL players often get an extra week suspension if they dont take an early plea. this also applies to many forms of the courts. dont know that the RTA would be able to do it but it may just be them relaying the message for the court.

nonchalant
03-11-2010, 05:58 PM
Yea the loss of licence was actually due to one offence (exceeding speed limit by 45km/h) but she only appealed the monetary penalty/fine amount applied not the licence disqualification period.

Nurburg608
03-11-2010, 06:41 PM
I can't find anything that talks about that but if she had previous offences and the 7 points she got from that particular offence put her demerit points over then it is possible.

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/rulesregulations/penalties/demeritpoints/index.html

Rgmast
03-11-2010, 09:00 PM
I would have a guess and say that she lost her licence for 12 months for that 45km . she would of got demerit points taking off so that would have taken her 12 demerit points . So she gets 12 months for the speeding and additional cos she has used all her demerit points

edelbrock1
03-11-2010, 09:10 PM
Not sure if this is the way it works for all states.

But my mate just got done drink driving. He lost his licence for 12 months. Then when he went back to get it after 12 months, he was told that he also lost 3 points for the drink drive offence. This used up all his points, so he had to sit out another 3 months to get his points back.

So the courts imposed the 12 months loss. but the Motor rego department imposed the 3 month loss for having no points.

Hope this helps

nonchalant
03-11-2010, 09:19 PM
Ok spoke to the friend of mine again and shes insisting she needs to serve a further period with no licence SOLELY because she appealed the fines imposed originally for her 2 offences ie exceeding 45km/h and street racing. The RTA told her today she would in fact have got her licence back after the 12 mth suspension if she hadnt appealed. So this isnt a double whammy as I first thought.. :confused:

akanives
04-11-2010, 12:03 AM
i know what the others have mentioned can happen as my brother had the same happen. lost license for 39 over. instant 6 months. and then further 3 months for getting the 4 points.
but i ignored that path as he said it was caused by the appeal on the fines.
on what grounds did she appeal? lack of evidence? or was it an appeal to not lose the license? or just about the sheer high cost of the ticket?

nonchalant
04-11-2010, 06:18 AM
Yea apparently her lawyer just appealed the monetary amount of the fine not the loss of licence? Seems odd you would be penalised for that. She should be speaking to her lawyer today so hopefully will find out where she stands.

akanives
04-11-2010, 02:19 PM
had a quick browse of the rta website and nothing i can see.
the only thing is on the green "on the spot infringement notice" paper (green in tas dunno about other states)it says if you take it to court and lose then further penalties may apply.
i would assume that would be monetary penalties.

they may be using that to base their decision on. couldnt find anything relevant to that on the website tho.

1MADMAX
05-11-2010, 12:28 AM
I'd be very surprised if the RTA has any authority to impose any penalties above and beyond what the court imposes for any given offence. The court, if I understand what you said here, has dealt with the matter of exceeding the speed limit by 45 km/h. Just because your friend appealed the amount of the fine, (which was a court imposed sanction and not imposed by the RTA), this should not entitle the RTA to impose a further period of cancellation of her licence. Even if she appealed the conviction as well, the RTA does not determine what action the court may, or may not take when determining sentencing. Further, it is up to the court to decide if, and what further penalty should be applied if a person unsuccessfully appeals the decision.
I would suggest your friend contact the State Ombudsman's office for advice, and maybe take the RTA on through the Administrative Appeals Tribuneral because this situation stinks of the RTA saying a not so subtle f*&k you, don't mess with the RTA.
I think it's bullshit what they are doing, the court decided that a 12 month suspension was an appropriate punishment for the offence, and now the RTA is being bloody minded and wanting to flex a bit of departmental muscle. Consider the fact that most criminal offences, for example a habitual thief or burglar who is caught for a number of offences and convicted of them as a result of a single hearing in court. The courts typically impose a custodial sentence for each offence. Those sentences are not served consecutively, that is one period of detention for one offence, then for the next offence another period of time etc etc etc. The courts usually order that the sentences be served concurrently, meaning if the bad guy (or girl if you need me to be so politically correct...) is convicted for breaking into six houses (six burglaries) and sentenced to one month imprisonment for each burglary, he (or she) is facing 6 X 1 month prison sentences. The bad guy (or girl) would only serve a maximum of 1 month, as each of the 6 sentences would be served all at the same time.

If the RTA wanted to impose their own penalty, independently of the courts decision, (But I do not believe that they are entitled to impose extra penalties where the courts have dealt with the matter), I would expect their sanction would have to be dealt with concurrently with the courts punishment, and not consecutively.

As for the notice on the back of the infringement notice it is my understanding that it is only warning that the courts may impose a more severe penalty than the original on the spot fine if you lost the court case. It also is referring to the fact that if you did lose the court case, it is possible that you may face having to pay the cost of the prosecution, and at least a token payment toward the cost of the courts time, it's staff and so on.

Good luck with it, and keep us updated with what happens.
cheers

hrt048
07-11-2010, 01:09 PM
Is this New South Wales RTA? You will probably find that she also has a demerit points issue as well, so she gets the 12 months by the Courts and there is also her demerits points suspension as well which is added on. So when she applies for her licence after the 12 months it will be refused by the RTA because of her bad traffic record and they won't reconsider it for another 4 months. Something along those lines. There is probably a lot more to the story that she is not telling you.

Did she get her car confiscated as well for the street racing?

akanives
07-11-2010, 02:33 PM
yeah a few people have suggested that. but he said that the RTA said that if she hadnt disputed the cost. there would be no further suspension.
so its not a demerit point issue its a suspension due to dispute of cost. and yes nsw rta. there is only rta in nsw other states have diff names.

1MADMAX
07-11-2010, 11:25 PM
Akanives,
If the RTA has actually said the reason for the extended suspension is because she disputed the amount of the fine, I 'd be asking for that in writing and taking it to the Ombudsman's office for their attention because it makes no sense that they can impose such a penalty as a "punishment" for appealing the heavy fine. It really stinks and I can't see how they have the authority to do this. I would think that she can also apply to the court to have a "special" licence granted in the interim so she can get to and from work and so on. Most people who go down for DUI or exceed PCA (over 0.08) usually get a special licence if they need it for work.
Mate, seriously I just can't see how the RTA can legitimately do this, it's the courts who administer the fines and penalties as per the rellevent legislation. Anyway, keep us posted.

cheers

akanives
07-11-2010, 11:41 PM
i agree completely max. im just repeating what nonchalant (thread author) has already said a couple of times.

nonchalant
08-11-2010, 04:21 PM
Well sounds like the RTA may have stuffed up according to my friend's lawyer. Will know more shortly but according to him this happens a lot and you simply need to 'kick up' about it and the RTA waives the decision to not renew the licence. I'll let you guys know more once I know..thanks for all the help and advice btw.. :)

nonchalant
08-11-2010, 06:47 PM
Hmm..found this http://www.policensw.com/info/traffic/demeritfaq.html

"What if my licence has been disqualified by a court?

If your licence is disqualified by a court, no demerit points will be cleared from your record during the period of disqualification. This means that if you reached or exceeded the number of allowable points before the disqualification, you will be required to serve an additional period of refusal at the end of the disqualification. If you have exceeded your demerit points limit, you will be advised by the Motor Registry when you apply for a licence. You will also be given a Notice of Refusal. Unrestricted licence holders may apply to serve a good behaviour period instead of the refusal.

Disqualification by a court does not replace a demerit points action against your licence. This means that if you are convicted by a court of an offence that attracts demerit points, the points will be added to your record, even if you receive a disqualification or the court dismisses the matter under Section 10(1) of the Crimes (Sentencing Procedure) Act 1999".

So..this doesnt negate my last post in that technically she will be refused however she can ask for a good behaviour period to be served instead of being refused a licence.

akanives
08-11-2010, 08:06 PM
so it was due to points and not due to disputing the fee?

nonchalant
08-11-2010, 09:41 PM
so it was due to points and not due to disputing the fee?

Well reading that it appears that way. She is waiting to check it with her lawyer.