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View Full Version : Help with Maf or Mafless tune.



chappy
21-10-2006, 03:45 PM
Ok guys can anyone enlighten me on Maf and Mafless tuning.

I had my car tunes with the Maf in place, I was happy with the outcome, other than the tuner telling me if I wanted it to be more responsive and gain a little more economy I should possible thing about a VZ Mat and large Maf to TB pipe.

I have a HSV 285kw airbox with K&N panel filter at the moment.

I have been thinking if I was to get the car retuned and remove the Maf and increase the TB pipe size would this make improvements with out affecting the everyday driving of the car.

VY SS auto with pacemakers Tri-ys , 2 exhaust that all the mods.
Gained 32rwkw with the VCM tune.

Cheers

VNSS90
23-10-2006, 03:12 AM
There is alot of mucking around involved with swapping to a VZ maf and Pipe.. Its not just a simple swap, you will need another custom tune after its done.....
Go a Mafless tune with a GTS intake pipe, and that should keep ya happy for a while....

vypower
23-10-2006, 11:33 AM
Ok guys can anyone enlighten me on Maf and Mafless tuning.

I had my car tunes with the Maf in place, I was happy with the outcome, other than the tuner telling me if I wanted it to be more responsive and gain a little more economy I should possible thing about a VZ Mat and large Maf to TB pipe.

I have a HSV 285kw airbox with K&N panel filter at the moment.

I have been thinking if I was to get the car retuned and remove the Maf and increase the TB pipe size would this make improvements with out affecting the everyday driving of the car.

VY SS auto with pacemakers Tri-ys , 2 exhaust that all the mods.
Gained 32rwkw with the VCM tune.

Cheers
only last week i faced this dilemma in my vy ss. i had pacemakers with 2 1/2 exhaust etc. i also have the ss inductions on and k&n filter. i took it to get computer edit and they recommended MAFless over anything else.

dyno printed out 242.4rwkw. you should expect similar results. and the curve was consiustently higher along the whole rev range. amazing difference. if you are in QLD let me know and i'll put u on to where i did mine

Generation Motorsport
09-11-2006, 09:38 PM
MAF or MAFless
the truth is, if both tunes are done correctly, they should make exactly the same full throttle power. A MAFless tune does have a LITTLE more throttle response, but will use more fuel. BUT, if your tuner does a good MAF map, you will have excellent throttle response, and the benefeit of better fuel economy. remember its the MAF's job to continually measure the amount of air entering the engine. at 100% throttle, the MAF is turned off, and you run on a WOT table. we have tested larger MAF's and found no power gain, so long as your MAF is tuned correctly.
we still have the MAF on our monaro, and it returns 8.5lt/100k average on a trip.
i have 1 more piece of useless advice for ya, think twice before you spend several hundreds of dollars, to get a couple-o-kw gain. in a car that weighs around the chubby side of 1800kgs, you need more than a couple of kw's to feel a difference.

cheers
GM

UncleD
13-06-2011, 07:38 AM
I have a 2005 CV8Z (manual) with the only mods being pacemaker headers and high flow cats (the rest of the exhaust is standard).

Like most, quicker is better but I'm not a modifications nutter...in fact, I am a Holden nut more than a speed freak so original is cool!

Nonetheless, if I could get more bang for a few bucks, that would be good so I have been reading as much as I can on tuning and basic, cost effective mods. I was interested to read the last comment that basically said that the improvements you get from tuning are not worth the cost. Would love to hear more thoughts on this.

Also, what do readers consider to be the most cost effective mods to my vehicle?

Finally, how does the GenIII in my CV8Z differ from other models, including HSV?

XR8TEDVY2
19-06-2011, 01:12 AM
Just go maffless mate. It's an old age topic that maffless won the day in the performance stakes.
Cheers

macca33
19-06-2011, 09:06 AM
UncleD- as stated, MAFless is the way to go for an LS1. If you absolutely HAVE to retain your MAF, then look at getting one of the VZ LS1 MAFs, as they had a larger internal diameter, which meant less intake restriction. If you want to use an OTR (over the radiator cold air intake) then MAFless is the only way to go. Well, not the only way, but the most beneficial.

The engine in your car, dependent upon build date, may have a slightly different camshaft to other LS1 engines of the time - nothing too radical, just a bit different.

Best, cost-effective mods would be:-

Exhaust - 2.5" cat-back and better catalytic conveters as a minimum and extractors if possible. ($700 - $2500 dependent upon brand and what you choose to do.)

Intake - OTRCAI ($500--700, but must also include the following)

MAFless PCM tune.

Diff gears would be an added bonus and make the car feel more responsive.


cheers

go sick
20-06-2011, 01:59 AM
if you guys are in vic give mario at autotechnique a call they will help you out and they wont rip ya like some shops to. good price and right addvice what more would you want ph0397631195

gto461
20-06-2011, 03:21 PM
chuck in a rip shift too, but mate give a reputable shop a call and seek their knowledge, i drive from newy to sydney to get major stuff done to my cars so when you find a good workshop stick too it
also mafless all the way

Mike xu6
20-06-2011, 06:53 PM
hi guys, how are you, have any of you guys herd of awesome automotive, in adelaide, im about to get a tune done through him, and would like your imput, if you do know him, whats he like, were you happy with his work, etc. cheers,l Mike xu6

Strick
09-08-2015, 07:24 PM
Well why not bump this up, havent had a tune on a LS for years. Has technology and tuning methods caught up to retain the Maf as being better? My first thoughts are to go Mafless as may as well get as much out of the tune as possible.

white_lie
09-08-2015, 07:41 PM
Yours being a VZ motor will have the larger maf. They're not as restrictive as the earlier ones. There will (or should) be very little between the two in terms of power but the maf tune should be more accurate.

Ants-gts
09-08-2015, 07:44 PM
most tuners will tell u to go mafless but retaining the maf is the best option for better throttle response and fuel economy.
most time is spent scaling the maf in a good tune.
maf is there to measure the air coming into the engine and dose most of the work at high rpm so why would u want to get rid of it ???
it is only in aus that they maf less tunes as a norm why is that ???
because it is the easier option and less time consuming that is why
its easy to flash a pcm with a generic tune based on ve

07GTS
09-08-2015, 10:09 PM
quite the opposite the mafless is so much easier to tune it is a single scale of airflow/hz which contains 60-70 odd cells, on the other hand mafless table of rpm/map/airflow contains over 600+ cells ( or 1000+ cells if ur FI ) so u can refine a tune to a tee ( then add all the transient fueling to that if u have to) also from factory the maff isnt used till after 4+k rpm so any cruise is during mafless (or blended) situation, the maf at really low airspeed isnt as accurate where as the MAP changes with very small adjustments, mafless can be more responsive but usually if they are both tunes right just from driving u shouldnt be able to tell any difference, or if u have a cam it can be better to go mafless, aus does mafless alot because we can get away with it here the states have emission tests every year in most areas, i have had my best fuel economy whilst mafless the 02 sensors commanding 14.68 AFR is still the same maf or mafless

NickGts
09-08-2015, 10:30 PM
Yer I'm sick of tuners saying we tune MAF less, if that's the case all the hi end cars wouldn't be using MAF eg Porsche,Ferrari blah blah
They go Mafless, Mafs now can handle flow and aren't as restrictive, yet people still don't like em?

GenF-GTS
09-08-2015, 11:11 PM
If the car has a camshaft I hear it is very difficult to tune with the MAF. Thats what I have heard.

07GTS
09-08-2015, 11:40 PM
If the car has a camshaft I hear it is very difficult to tune with the MAF. Thats what I have heard.yes especially when u have an otr because of the sideways shaking of the engine disrupts the airflow at idle thru the maf sensor, and the cams overlap ( less vacuum ) is picked up with the MAP where as the maf only sees flow nothing more so it will depend on size of cam also

white_lie
10-08-2015, 10:59 AM
Is that perhaps the reason the C4B's were mafless? Even their baby can makes it more difficult to tune?

07GTS
10-08-2015, 06:41 PM
Is that perhaps the reason the C4B's were mafless? Even their baby can makes it more difficult to tune?could have had a part in it but did those c4b cams have overlap or were they just more lift..? hurd they were harsh on the valve train, i think just because it was a restriction in the intake that they went mafless other wise they could just have the maf in there but not use it and then use the MAP for idle until there is enough airflow

white_lie
10-08-2015, 07:19 PM
It was supposedly a 212/222 .560"/.569" 116.9

I always just assumed they removed it because of the physical restriction (as well as making the rest of the piping larger) but found that info interesting

07GTS
10-08-2015, 08:03 PM
thats bout -16 deg overlap so should be fine but yea i think it was just a restriction so it was removed, was prob the easiest way to keep emissions and get 300kw