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Sniper
11-01-2018, 02:33 PM
Whether we like it or not the GM performance world is moving and it's only a matter of months before clowns like myself will be considering the possibility of purchasing a Camaro

I've been looking at the possibility of owning and modding the LT1 Camaro and it looks like a bit of fun .... but here's the key!!! ... from what I can gather the 2SS does have the 1LE option which comes with a fair bit of good stuff inc 6 piston brakes , Recaro's etc etc and maybe someone can put a ILE link in this thread ...

Then from there, a number of Tuning and Supercharger options already available that seem to take the LT1 way past the output of the LT4 .. !!

Should Holden/HSV bring in the 2SS with the option 1LE option pack? .... I have no doubt the lighter (than GTSR) Camaro could be a pretty good and fun piece of equipment

white_lie
11-01-2018, 02:46 PM
The 1LE pack is only something like $6500, it's a no brainer to me for HSV to offer it, just not sure how difficult it would be for them if they need to order the car with it fitted. Lead times would be quite long I'd imagine. It would be a better option for them to fit the kit themselves but not sure it's do-able.

Should be a good range of aftermarket gear for them once they gain popularity, even if most of it comes from Walky to begin with (I'd guess they'll have a bit of a jump on the competition, getting access to vehicles before they hit the market).

Read about the new Mustang with 10 speed auto, it sounds like a huge leap forward for them, the Camaro will have its work cut out for it when they get here.

TPKW30
11-01-2018, 05:48 PM
I was at Sema last November & I picked up some brochures from the GM display.
The options that are available from factory on the Camaro are just mind blowing..

The standard brochure is 52 pages covering everything & anything
you could possibly want on your Camaro.

You can order an "SS Extreme" pack that the brochure says in big white writing:-

"600 plus hp, 1.433 60 ft time, 10.569 @127.8 mph 1/4 mile"

And that's not supercharged - that n/a...


The ZL1 can be optioned with the 1LE Extreme Track Package
which makes it an absolute track monster.

I'm sure what we're getting is the "SS1LE" package in auto only.
Google GM USA & go on their web site & build a Camaro - you will be amazed......

white_lie
11-01-2018, 08:02 PM
I'm sure what we're getting is the "SS1LE" package in auto only.
Google GM USA & go on their web site & build a Camaro - you will be amazed......

Nope, base SS model. No body kit or mention of Recaros, 6 piston brakes, MRC etc.

Pickles
11-01-2018, 08:22 PM
I have no idea what we're getting, but if HSV have the option of getting some "good gear" stuff on their import package, I hope they do it. Their product is substantially dearer than Mustang, so they need to ensure that it's substantially better.
Pickles.

RCBVFGTS
11-01-2018, 08:39 PM
From HSV DP direct. Only 2 options available from memory and that's an aero package and something else but it was something small, nothing like the 1LE but I will seek clarification

Y2Clubby
12-01-2018, 02:46 AM
I have no idea what we're getting, but if HSV have the option of getting some "good gear" stuff on their import package, I hope they do it. Their product is substantially dearer than Mustang, so they need to ensure that it's substantially better.
Pickles.

Pickles, they already believe (or more likely want potential customers to believe) that the 2SS is a highly spec'd vehicle when compared to the Mustang GT.

If they brought in the 1LE, there'd be less cream in it for them over the standard 2SS, and having it as an option will make it a $100K+ proposition, all for a car that will be slower than an MY14 GTS.
They'd be better off, just offering the 2SS, then bringing in the ZL1 to sell along side the 2SS in 2019.

Pickles
12-01-2018, 07:32 AM
Pickles, they already believe (or more likely want potential customers to believe) that the 2SS is a highly spec'd vehicle when compared to the Mustang GT.

If they brought in the 1LE, there'd be less cream in it for them over the standard 2SS, and having it as an option will make it a $100K+ proposition, all for a car that will be slower than an MY14 GTS.
They'd be better off, just offering the 2SS, then bringing in the ZL1 to sell along side the 2SS in 2019.

Thanks for that. Yes, it will be interesting to see in what form it comes, and also how it sells, it's gonna be at least $30K dearer than Mustang IMHO......so I suppose it will be not too far away from the price of a GTS?
Pickles.

Sniper
12-01-2018, 07:33 AM
I get your assessment Y2Clubby but .... let's look at the picture a little clearer ... I think the 2SS will be $85k .... add the 1LE option pack will make it more of a "Special Vehicle" that will pretty match perform as good as the LSA GTS on the road ... for $10k (it's only USD $6950) .... and if the get the ZL1 into the Australian range that would be another $20k plus ... there is enough to get me into a 2SS with 1LE short term ... I feel that Holden would be missing an opportunity by not bringing in the 1LE option ex factory to fulfil the niche that the HSV has now lost ...

Y2Clubby
13-01-2018, 01:17 AM
All valid points Sniper, but I believe the 2SS will be special enough, even without the bigger brakes, suspension, Recaro's, and those tough looking 19" wheels.
Just by having the Camaro sold exclusively through HSV's dealer network is enough to satisfy the niche tag. It'd be hard to argue that the 2SS isn't a Special Vehicle, especially here in Oz.

As we've seen with the GTS, customers are prepared to pay for a top spec'd model with a lot of power, so $30k over and above a 2SS for a ZL1 wouldn't be much of a problem. I'd say a ZL1 for GTSR money would sell pretty well.

By not bringing in the 1SS as their base model and opting to go with the 2SS instead, I reckon it leaves room for HSV to eventually offer higher spec models like the ZL1 in 2019 as their halo model, followed by optional trim packages like the 1LE optioned 2SS and ZL1. I just think that by not complicating things with alternate trim packages upon launch, the whole process becomes easier and more streamlined for HSV and their dealer network. Once they're up and running, no worries, go nuts.

Hopefully by 2021 we'll be getting a 7th Gen factory RHD Camaro, starting at a price which is comparative to Ford's Mustang.

P.S, good to see you around here again Sniper.

Senator376
16-01-2018, 01:53 PM
Chevrolet Camaro SS pricing revealed.
According to a dealer website it will be priced from $90,000.

Source: http://www.caradvice.com.au/614507/hsv-sportscat-camaro-and-silverado-pricing-revealed/

markalan1two
16-01-2018, 02:19 PM
Thats expensive considering its $43000 in the states
https://www.autoblog.com/buy/2018-Chevrolet-Camaro-2SS__2dr_Coupe/pricing/

http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/camaro-sports-car

white_lie
16-01-2018, 02:22 PM
That would have to be plus on roads, a Z71 Colorado is 65k drive away, SportsCat wouldn't be the same price...that said, I think the pricing for the Colorados are pretty good, won't take much for people looking at a Z71 to make the switch. Camaro on the other hand may have a hard time at RRP. And then there's the Silverado....

markalan1two
16-01-2018, 02:25 PM
i don't know why they don't just bring the ZL1 out here thats what everyone wants

markalan1two
16-01-2018, 02:27 PM
That would have to be plus on roads, a Z71 Colorado is 65k drive away, SportsCat wouldn't be the same price...that said, I think the pricing for the Colorados are pretty good, won't take much for people looking at a Z71 to make the switch. Camaro on the other hand may have a hard time at RRP. And then there's the Silverado....
Thats right it would attract LCT on top of that also will end up 105-110 with on road and a few extras

GenF-GTS
16-01-2018, 03:21 PM
i don't know why they don't just bring the ZL1 out here thats what everyone wants

Because in 12 months when they do bring it out then all of the SS owners can come back in and trade up for the ZL1 and HSV can bank twice on that customer.

GTS Happy
16-01-2018, 04:37 PM
Can pre-order, no mentioning of pricing online though...


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180116/d3da2893af6a94e3a5858d40e9a24fe5.jpg

Pickles
16-01-2018, 07:22 PM
i don't know why they don't just bring the ZL1 out here thats what everyone wants

Agree, and in regard to pre-ordering, why would anyone pre-order without final details of pricing & options, particularly in view of the fact (HSV say they're not interested in Mustang), that prior to the HSV Camaro being released the Mustang will have an engine upgrade plus a 10 speed auto.
Pickles.

Mikhail
16-01-2018, 09:12 PM
Have they introduced the Mustang to corners yet? Camaro has laid down some great times even if it isn't the ultimate drag queen.

white_lie
16-01-2018, 10:29 PM
New Mustang will embarrass plenty of standard GTS owners let alone Camaros

Mikhail
16-01-2018, 10:36 PM
Current ones track times aren't great. Might be quick in a straight line but have they done anything else?

white_lie
16-01-2018, 11:12 PM
A base GT isn't much to write home about when talking high performance, just like an SS Commodore isn't. They've generally been on par with the SS Camaro in the twisty stuff.
You can still option it up with the 5k performance pack to improve on it but the 30k difference in price would also go a long way.

Don't confuse the 1LE pack or ZL1/ZL1 1LE with the 2SS that we're getting, there's big differences

Pickles
17-01-2018, 06:38 AM
New Mustang will embarrass plenty of standard GTS owners let alone Camaros
What is the engine upgrade?
Pickles.

markalan1two
17-01-2018, 10:29 AM
What is the engine upgrade?
Pickles.

extra 40 hp + 10 speed Auto

white_lie
17-01-2018, 11:30 AM
Doesn't sound like much but they've pulled flat 12 second quarters out of them dead stock. High 11's with the factory fitted performance pack.

markalan1two
17-01-2018, 01:24 PM
Probably a lot to do with the transmission

white_lie
17-01-2018, 02:10 PM
Yes, it is. It's nearly a full second quicker than the manual down the quarter.
Most sources say it's only a 25hp increase in power, so it's pretty much all transmission and tuning when in 'drag' mode

RCBVFGTS
17-01-2018, 09:00 PM
Can pre-order, no mentioning of pricing online though...


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180116/d3da2893af6a94e3a5858d40e9a24fe5.jpg

You wouldn't order through those gooses anyway! I'd rather travel 20mins up the road and see Joel Mullins at Motorama Springwood

Smitty
17-01-2018, 10:02 PM
Can pre-order, no mentioning of pricing online though..............

WHEELS headline online tonight

Camaro pricing announced .. but of course you have to buy the mag

Y2Clubby
18-01-2018, 05:09 AM
WHEELS headline online tonight

Camaro pricing announced .. but of course you have to buy the mag

https://www.wheelsmag.com.au/news/1801/hsv-camaro-sportscat-and-silverado-pricing-leaked

Pickles
18-01-2018, 07:43 AM
Yes, as the article says, it's not clear whether Camaro price at $90K is "driveaway"?
Pickles.

Smitty
18-01-2018, 09:08 AM
https://www.wheelsmag.com.au/news/1801/hsv-camaro-sportscat-and-silverado-pricing-leaked

.. thanks
that link was not there when I got the email

Smitty
18-01-2018, 09:08 AM
Yes, as the article says, it's not clear whether Camaro price at $90K is "driveaway"?
Pickles.

.. it will $100 plus if that is not a driveaway price :(

GTS Happy
18-01-2018, 09:19 AM
You wouldn't order through those gooses anyway! I'd rather travel 20mins up the road and see Joel Mullins at Motorama Springwood

If I was buying new, Motorama for sure, not for second hand though.

white_lie
18-01-2018, 12:37 PM
Same pricing as the car advice link a couple of days ago. I can't see it being drive away going by the Colorado pricing. Surely the Sportscat wouldn't be the same price as a Z71?

Would have liked to see Camaro around the 80-85k mark.

Smitty
18-01-2018, 03:05 PM
................

Would have liked to see Camaro around the 80-85k mark.


.....so say lots of us I would think

Andrew_02
19-01-2018, 10:51 AM
You all should be happy then.......

That aside have a camaro SS R5 parked in the next bay. Only bad part of this short story is i dont have the keys. Redish colour looks very low and RHD. looks to have a heap of room in the front. Back seat maybe not so much room.

Andrew_02
24-01-2018, 11:49 AM
HSV have already been quoted giving the price for the 2018 cars! several months ago it was also mentioned in the final HSV car mag. On sale around July, orders being taken now but u may leave your self open to some interesting dealer delivery fees.

https://image.ibb.co/hvfhDb/20180119_092133.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/dbF4Rw/20180119_092205.jpg

<a href="https://ibb.co/cuj9tb"><img src="https://preview.ibb.co/hYEW6w/20180119_092133.jpg" alt="20180119 092133" border="0" /></a>

<a href="https://ibb.co/ePGYKG"><img src="https://thumb.ibb.co/ePGYKG/20180119_092205.jpg" alt="20180119 092205" border="0" /></a>

Pickles
24-01-2018, 04:08 PM
Same pricing as the car advice link a couple of days ago. I can't see it being drive away going by the Colorado pricing. Surely the Sportscat wouldn't be the same price as a Z71?

Would have liked to see Camaro around the 80-85k mark.
You might be fairly close.
Pickles.

white_lie
24-01-2018, 04:28 PM
Fingers crossed!

A lot of people in the used market going to take a hit. Trying to offload 8 year old models for 80-100k. Wouldn't imagine the conversion is anywhere near as good either

Andrew_02
24-01-2018, 09:12 PM
can anyone give me the photo upload link for imgbb please, I have two option for each of the four photo types and this Camaro does not want to upload. cheers

got it it just took a minute or so, I'm no photographer sorry, the photos are crap this car must be a few years old, seeing one of these, I can see why they will sell out in 2018, the price is right and you will not see the Camaro back in second hand car yards like the mustags. This car was very impressive.

As Snipper says they will need to move a big percentage of the GTSR's before these two doors hit the showrooms, my guess is they will sell out though(Camaros 2018 stock), so that may play out okay for dealers that get the right options and colours in 2018, bit like having a GTSR now in auto and lime green in colour, the W1 is perfect in any colour sales are speaking volumes WRT the GTSR. Is their an age limit to buying that red two door mid life crisis car lol, anyone interested in a new red astra r?


https://image.ibb.co/dFD2Db/20180119_092154.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/k4dfzG/20180119_092222.jpg
not my car I hope the owner does not mind, I was very impressed standing next to this car, I was going to park the new GTSR next to it but decided against it.

white_lie
24-01-2018, 09:16 PM
can anyone give me the photo upload link for imgbb please, I have two option for each of the four photo types and this Camaro does not want to upload. cheershttps://imgbb.com

TPKW30
25-01-2018, 07:09 AM
I've had 2 dealers ring me trying to sell me an Camaro.
As soon as they said no manual it was all over for me...
They were both talking approx $100k.
Add some options and you're then talking $120k
For that money you could almost get a new Mustang & Focus RS....
I reckon the Mustang looks tough..A real muscle car..
The Focus would make a great weekend track toy.......

JimG
25-01-2018, 08:39 AM
I've had 2 dealers ring me trying to sell me an Camaro.
As soon as they said no manual it was all over for me...
They were both talking approx $100k.
Add some options and you're then talking $120k
For that money you could almost get a new Mustang & Focus RS....
I reckon the Mustang looks tough..A real muscle car..
The Focus would make a great weekend track toy.......

I tend to agree & not having a sedan (biggest sellers for HSV by a mile or 10) / wagon in their line up is a joke.
Seriously & from the prices being estimated, how many camaros & hotted up utes / trucks do they think they are going to sell.

hdt493
25-01-2018, 10:06 AM
I've had 2 dealers ring me trying to sell me an Camaro.
As soon as they said no manual it was all over for me...
They were both talking approx $100k.
Add some options and you're then talking $120k
For that money you could almost get a new Mustang & Focus RS....
I reckon the Mustang looks tough..A real muscle car..
The Focus would make a great weekend track toy.......

bought the mrs a new focus RS few months back. she loves it.
awd makes for a fun little machine to drive.

auto only for the camaro sux big time.

hdt493
25-01-2018, 10:08 AM
I tend to agree & not having a sedan (biggest sellers for HSV by a mile or 10) / wagon in their line up is a joke.
Seriously & from the prices being estimated, how many camaros & hotted up utes / trucks do they think they are going to sell.


probably only selling these things until the stockpile of vf2 moves and then hsv will announce something to
do with the imported awd commodores.

JimG
25-01-2018, 10:19 AM
probably only selling these things until the stockpile of vf2 moves and then hsv will announce something to
do with the imported awd commodores.

Makes sense hdt, hope you are right.

TPKW30
25-01-2018, 11:06 AM
bought the mrs a new focus RS few months back. she loves it.
awd makes for a fun little machine to drive.

auto only for the camaro sux big time.

I've heard from several owners what great cars the Focus are...

RCBVFGTS
28-01-2018, 07:37 AM
bought the mrs a new focus RS few months back. she loves it.
awd makes for a fun little machine to drive.

auto only for the camaro sux big time.



Hi mate

Looking (need to submit everything first) to have a Northern NSW HSV/HDT Owners Club. You be in to help?

zRoYz
28-01-2018, 12:14 PM
I've had 2 dealers ring me trying to sell me an Camaro.
As soon as they said no manual it was all over for me...
They were both talking approx $100k.
Add some options and you're then talking $120k
For that money you could almost get a new Mustang & Focus RS....
I reckon the Mustang looks tough..A real muscle car..
The Focus would make a great weekend track toy.......

Luv the Camaro, would never buy one at 100K odd that is moronic when you can have a Mustang for 40K less with a bonus of manual option. When both those cars compete at about the same price point in the US there is noway in hell I'm paying a premium for one because I have to pay extra for a RHD conversion. Ford had the vision to read the market & what was wanted when the home grown V8 large sedans finished & tooled up there plant & delivered the mustang at a fare price.

I want a new large V8 sedan in manual for a fare price the Mustang wins hands down the Camaro isn't even close especially as pointed out by TPKW30 what the extra money could buy. Imagine what 40K added to the Mustang in performance parts would do, then the small added performance of the Camaro is squashed.

GenF-GTS
28-01-2018, 01:14 PM
I still think 2019-2020 the Camaro will adopt the new LT5 engine which from factory makes 755HP (found in the new ZR1 Corvette)
This will be a 10sec car from the factory.

Ford have announced that they will have a 700+HP Mustang direct from Ford, not through Roush, Shelby etc direct from Ford it only makes sense that the Camaro will follow suit to compete with sales, they always have and always will.

That will then likely be available here when that happens, you will then have a new bread of buyers similar to the current LSA market.

white_lie
28-01-2018, 02:29 PM
I want a new large V8 sedan in manual for a fare price the Mustang wins hands down.

Whilst I get what you're saying, neither is a sedan or particularly large.

zRoYz
28-01-2018, 03:29 PM
Whilst I get what you're saying, neither is a sedan or particularly large.

Camaro is also 2 door about same size was more my point but granted not a sedan like the VF.

white_lie
28-01-2018, 03:51 PM
Given they're V8 sports cars, I think we'll see a bit of a split in the market. Those that want a V8 at all costs will stick with them and quite a few will still see value in the Camaro. My understanding is the 2SS is better spec'd than the GT, although not 40k worth obviously.
And those that need the size will forgo the V8 and move to an SUV. I know I'd go that way rather than stick with the "new Commodore" or Camry or similar.

Pickles
28-01-2018, 03:55 PM
I've seen a comment on the forum referring what HSV will do with the ZB Turbo V6,......I don't think they'll do anything meaningful engine wise with that car.
Pickles.

Sniper
28-01-2018, 04:38 PM
Given they're V8 sports cars, I think we'll see a bit of a split in the market. Those that want a V8 at all costs will stick with them and quite a few will still see value in the Camaro. My understanding is the 2SS is better spec'd than the GT, although not 40k worth obviously.
And those that need the size will forgo the V8 and move to an SUV. I know I'd go that way rather than stick with the "new Commodore" or Camry or similar.

Your making good sense .... it will be interesting when they are matched in the Aus marketplace by the Automotive Media .... as the Camaro's are heading to Holden dealerships Ford will also be delivering the "Series 2" Mustangs with a range of critical updates ... both visually and technical ....

JimG
28-01-2018, 06:35 PM
I've seen a comment on the forum referring what HSV will do with the ZB Turbo V6,......I don't think they'll do anything meaningful engine wise with that car.
Pickles.

Why wouldn’t they Pickles, selling fast sedans has been the backbone of HSVs existence

Pickles
28-01-2018, 08:25 PM
Why wouldn’t they Pickles, selling fast sedans has been the backbone of HSVs existence

From what I've read, they've looked at it, seriously, but not enough room under the bonnet for mods, and also the cost of doing anything to this very electronically complex car would be prohibitive, with only marginal improvements at best.
Pickles.

JimG
28-01-2018, 08:46 PM
From what I've read, they've looked at it, seriously, but not enough room under the bonnet for mods, and also the cost of doing anything to this very electronically complex car would be prohibitive, with only marginal improvements at best.
Pickles.

Yep I read / heard the same thing however I would have thought the LF4 v6tt should fit, they use it in the caddy ATS-v which is a smaller car ?? Not being able to get the US bits to talk to the Euro bits shouldn’t be a game breaker either??

If in fact the rumours are correct then I’m not sure how HSV will make a living selling camaros and hotted up utes, unless they have something else up their sleeve.

Andrew_02
28-01-2018, 08:51 PM
HSV have stated they are not touching the ZB
This forum has already mentioned $80k for the Camaro that will be selling in July, I guess that's $20k above the Mustang
so HSV are selling a complete package, at a higher level than the Mustang.
I know the three vehicles HSV are now working on will keep HSV going and I hope in not much more than two years time
the Walkinshaw group will be able to sort out the next RHD V8, not sure about RWD I guess it will be AWD!
If they buy a few thousand the end cost to us should be very close to what the US are paying maybe, I can only guess that will
still push them up into the full GTS price of around $100/110k, I for one can't see HSV ever selling a Clubsport spec full size family sedan again.
I doubt we will ever see HSV changing an engine the cost inc. warranty would kill that move.
My guess is the old style Walkinshaw group/shops will come up with ZB packages, they should be sorted already, anyone seen a ZB worked yet? or is the stock on the road now all under contracts, I spotted a few on the road in December.

Mikhail
28-01-2018, 10:23 PM
HSV will do nothing to the new Commodore, no longevity in the product to justify development costs.

Pickles
29-01-2018, 07:50 AM
Andrew,..good post.
My info is that HSV plan on selling PLENTY of Camaros. Then they've got the big Chev Ute.
And the Colorado?....I reckon this REALLY needs an engine upgrade, and I am surprised they haven't released it with same,..reprogramming diesels is not that difficult,...injectors, turbo, intercooler, ecu etc,...it's not rocket science.
And then of course, Walkinshaw Racing is not ruling out a manufacturer change in the future, so who knows what that could bring?
Pickles.

Andrew_02
29-01-2018, 08:47 AM
Andrew,..good post.
My info is that HSV plan on selling PLENTY of Camaros. Then they've got the big Chev Ute.
And the Colorado?....I reckon this REALLY needs an engine upgrade, and I am surprised they haven't released it with same,..reprogramming diesels is not that difficult,...injectors, turbo, intercooler, ecu etc,...it's not rocket science.
And then of course, Walkinshaw Racing is not ruling out a manufacturer change in the future, so who knows what that could bring?
Pickles.

cheers. I was surprised to see the NEW huge Ram pickup, they have been out for two years, I spoke to an owner here in Townsville, they tow a horse float and have owned the "truck" for about two years and love it, the Ram must be the biggest
of its type in Aust.
The Colorado is no secret, I did not start counting vehicles, but I guess they had between 30-50 ready to have the chassis removed and working on, on two production lines. No engine mods, if they do that they not Holden/GM would need to provide the full warranty, that's why Walkinshaw charge $15k for a blower!
The Colorado type vehicle is overtaking Australia ATM, I'm not sure what's next, they seem to be like; everyone walking around with their face in a mobile phone, something else will take over, but for now, the Colorado will sell with a nice interior package, shocks/brakes/wheels (just my guess), and of course a rear top roll bar. I did not see a 100 percent finished product. I'm happy for the company to keep going selling peddle-carts or caravans! if needed until the next GTS or Grange is available.

How many Camaro's will they sell, fact they can only work their magic on so many vehicles each month, yes they do have three working areas but one per vehicle now. That's why I personally think it could be a challenge to own a Camaro in 2018, lets hope dealers don't try what is creaping out already, down right stupid asking prices, it is just so easy now to buy a car interstate and have it delivered to your door, I will keep on doing just that if the first price is not on planet earth, that's why Townsville still have heaps of stock, my guess the only sales here have been to pre sold cars.

I think HSV's issue ATM is, how to make money on a medium/low volume car, after mods and changing to RHD, you cant!

zRoYz
29-01-2018, 04:56 PM
I honestly don't think HSV will sell very many Colorado's just because they add a fancy dress up package, I'm a tradesman & we are prob the number one buyer of these type of vehicles & when you can add extra's yourself for less & mix & match to have a more individual vehicle. What would spark my interest & get my money is a performance boost over a fancy dress up any day of the week. Myself like many tradesman have a common problem now Holden/Ford don't make the ute anymore when even the 6 cyl had great performance (I use a V6 VF Storm which is 3 years old). There isn't a replacement that comes close to there performance Hilux, Ranger, Colorado, etc are boring performance wise.

I will require a new ute in the next few years (would be sooner but there is nothing to match the VF) & so will many tradesman that have used the Holden/Ford utes for years (I have used them for 30 years). It will only take one manufacturer to release a performance package for Hilux, Ranger, Colorado, etc & tradesman who have bought XR6, XR6T, XR8, SS, etc will buy them in numbers.

The Camaro will sell first up at the inflated price due to the hype & something new in the AUS market place, that will die very quickly especially as the Mustang will be allot cheaper & has a upgrade coming. I'm no marketing guru but 1 large truck with very limited market, a dressed up Colorado & an over priced Camaro is as boring as bat shit & I'm guessing will be allot of hot air in the market place.

Sniper
29-01-2018, 05:23 PM
Walkinshaw Performance will be announcing 2 differing power upgrade packages in the next few weeks for the Colorado Sportcat .... these have been developed by HPF (their Vic & Tas) dealer for the network of WP agents

Apparently there is a tune only pack .... and also a tune/exh pack .... plus other stuff like nudge bars and lights ...

This info is "third hand" but does make sense given most of the recent WP offerings have been put together at HPF

white_lie
29-01-2018, 09:16 PM
I've always said WP will offer the performance packs as they're not under the same ADR/emissions/GM constraints that HSV would be. It's also still giving all parts of the business a piece of the pie

FollowTheSapper
29-01-2018, 09:27 PM
So you pay extra for a tarted up Colorado with a HSV badge, then get stung again by walkinshaw for performance gear which in effect is the same company.


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white_lie
29-01-2018, 09:30 PM
I'd prefer it that way.
A) It's not going to be a compromise of a tune that complys with emissions and
B) I can choose my tuner, which sure as heck wouldn't be a Walky dealer

How many people pay a premium for a HSV based Commodore and then go and change the exhaust and tune?

white_lie
30-01-2018, 12:34 PM
This article was brought to my attention this morning. It's a pretty good read... Compares the Camaro with a 1LE pack and the Mustang with the performance pack.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevrolet/camaro/2018/2018-chevrolet-camaro-ss-1le-vs-2018-ford-mustang-gt-performance-pack-comparison/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign&utm_content=5a6f531504d301038c73c07a&utm_medium&utm_source

I really think HSV need to bring in the 1LE as a minimum, if not the ZL1/ZL1 1LE.

TPKW30
30-01-2018, 06:28 PM
This article was brought to my attention this morning. It's a pretty good read... Compares the Camaro with a 1LE pack and the Mustang with the performance pack.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevrolet/camaro/2018/2018-chevrolet-camaro-ss-1le-vs-2018-ford-mustang-gt-performance-pack-comparison/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign&utm_content=5a6f531504d301038c73c07a&utm_medium&utm_source

I really think HSV need to bring in the 1LE as a minimum, if not the ZL1/ZL1 1LE.

How good would it be to have THAT Camaro on sale here???

Y2Clubby
30-01-2018, 11:55 PM
When the inevitable Mustang v Camaro articles are published by Motor and Wheels mags, I think they're gonna read something like this;

"The Camaro is clearly our favourite car of the two. It's faster, and more agile than the Mustang, and due to the extra cost over the Mustang, it's unlikely that you'll see one parked on every corner, so it'll be a rarer sight on our roads. But ultimately, this is why we couldn't pick our favourite car as the winner of this comparo.

Is it faster?, does it steer better? Does it pull up quicker than the Ford? Yes, Yes, and Yes.
Does it look better? Well, we think yes, but looks are subjective, and you'd be hard pressed to find a member of the Blue Oval team that would give the Chevy the win in that department.
So it came down to this question, is the Camaro really $25k Better than the Mustang?

white_lie
31-01-2018, 01:52 PM
Thing is, it's looking more like 35-40k difference at this stage.

Also the 2018 Mustang is a completely different story. There's only 5hp difference between them and while the Camaro has a torque advantage, the Mustang's 10 speed and much higher rev limit makes up for it. It also has larger front brakes than the Camaro

markalan1two
31-01-2018, 02:49 PM
Have to wait and see what the price of the 18 Mustang will be landed compared to the Camaro. I think HSV will have a battle on there hands though. If it were the ZL1 for say 110-120 drive away i would be the be the first in line, but over 100 for the 2ss can't see them moving them.

Pickles
31-01-2018, 03:10 PM
Have to wait and see what the price of the 18 Mustang will be landed compared to the Camaro. I think HSV will have a battle on there hands though. If it were the ZL1 for say 110-120 drive away i would be the be the first in line, but over 100 for the 2ss can't see them moving them.

Under $90k driveaway is my tip.
Pickles.

Sniper
31-01-2018, 03:47 PM
Dealers are setting $97500 as the driveway .... they are staying with the $4950 Delivery fee as many tried to get for the GTSR .... the reasoning behind the price grab is the expected lack of supply .... it's going to be a slow rollout to the dealers so stock will be scarce and like the GTSR there will be certain punters that will pay just to have one ...

zRoYz
31-01-2018, 05:07 PM
I'm keen to see how the Camaro sells at the inflated price, I honestly don't think they will even sell the full original years forecast quot-er. The man of the house isn't going to be able to sway the wife that it can be used as a family car like the GTS, etc. There going to be a hell of allot more $$ than the updated Mustang (I would buy the Camaro over the Mustang any day of the week if price wasn't an issue). The days of man toy buying power is extremely weak with the average wage not meeting the cost of living, you just have to look at Harley etc sales to see that. Dealers are becoming greedy which also doesn't sit well with the average buyer. I feel Ford with the Mustang hit the market at the right time, GM had there head in the sand & still does, there isn't a vehicle in there current & future line up that I would consider at the moment.

TPKW30
31-01-2018, 06:51 PM
I don't think too many people will be buying the Camaro to use as a family car to kart kids around??
The Camaro will sit in its own niche market appealing to cashed up middle aged men whose kids
have left the roost a long time ago..
If HSV & the dealer's can make the same profit from selling one Camaro vs 10 Astra's the Camaro
will be a huge success...
And demand higher than supply will keep the prices up......

Nth57l
31-01-2018, 09:06 PM
I'm probably the wrong person to ask since I would take the Mustang even if it was more expensive than the Camaro as I think they are hideous (I actually considered buying a new Mustang but couldn't bring myself to part with my Monaro). However I still can't see how they will sell many Camaro SS for $100k. Some will jump in initially because they love Camaro's but I wouldn't think that would be many people. Time will tell I guess.

craze
01-02-2018, 12:17 AM
Mustangs crash better

Y2Clubby
01-02-2018, 12:27 AM
Thing is, it's looking more like 35-40k difference at this stage.

And this is the reason why the ZL1, or at the very least the 2SS 1LE should have been the car brought in to begin with.
A 2SS 1LE at the price that Sniper is saying, while still a lot more than the 2017 Mustang GT, is a lot easier to justify than the bread and butter 2SS (even though it's not really the actual base model V8 1SS).

If Mustang wasn't on sale in Australia as a factory RHD for around $60k drive away, HSV would sell as many as they could get at $90k. But you can walk in to a Ford dealer with $60k, and drive out in a brand new Mustang GT. It'll be worse if the 2018 GT comes in with similar drive away pricing to the 2017 model.

If the ZL1 was here for GTSR money, they'd move like hotcakes. Same as a 2SS for $70k, and 2SS 1LE for $85k.
That's what I think anyway..

white_lie
01-02-2018, 02:18 AM
If the ZL1 was here for GTSR money, they'd move like hotcakes. Same as a 2SS for $70k, and 2SS 1LE for $85k.
That's what I think anyway..

That's about the pricing I'd like to see. The ZL1 is about 20k more in the states, seeing it here for the 120-130k mark would be a ripper IMO. You can get them privately for a touch over 150k so you would think the scale and pricing that HSV are capable of, it should be a little cheaper (the 2SS is still cheaper than the current options).

I don't think HSV would be able to pump them out fast enough if they were around the prices we're talking.

Pickles
01-02-2018, 07:31 AM
At this stage HSV are talking about producing 450-500 Camaros in the later part of 2018.
Pickles.

Andrew_02
01-02-2018, 09:34 AM
My guess thats 12 months worth and they started in the new factory recently. Just a guess.

Sniper
01-02-2018, 09:38 AM
At this stage HSV are talking about producing 450-500 Camaros in the later part of 2018.
Pickles.

Your are 100% correct Martin and it's expected that the first despatches will be slow and by October they will hit their stride which will create a "Supply & Demand" high pricing regime in the dealers .... just like it was in the first 6 months of the Mustang and now Ford has more that 2500 on grass in their own stock and dealers have about 1400 which on their current sales rate of 450/mth amounts to 10 months stock given the interest in series one Stangs is poor at the moment - Ford buyers are hanging out for the series 2

The other thing that will affect the market is Ford (apparently) is going to bring the 2018 Stang in to Aus with the Performance Pack as std which is bound to achieve a couple of goals

1. Current Mustang owners will be tempted to update

2. Ford will increase the price by $10k at RRP

If this is the case it will narrow the gap between the Camaro as from what I'm hearing the 2018 Mustang is a giant leap forward in a few areas .... 6 Spot Front brakes .... more power and torque ... and a tricky new dash like the one in Richo's Audi ...

The only way HSV and Holden are going to be able to have any sort of cred in the market is to bring in the 2SS with the 1LE (naturally aspirated) and set the driveway price at $89995 ....

HSV are already pushing the Camaro program hard in their Marketing to ensure they can build the number they need to make the sort of money they need to support the investment they put into the new premises

HSV will lose the Camaro deal in late 2020 when GM supply it in RHD

HSVs long term future will still need plenty of effort to make the company sustainable after 2020 which is coming fast ....

It will be interesting to see what they do to make the new investments sustainable ... there seems to be a push to broaden the WP arm of the business too but that could be tricky

markalan1two
01-02-2018, 10:29 AM
- Ford buyers are hanging out for the series 2

The other thing that will affect the market is Ford (apparently) is going to bring the 2018 Stang in to Aus with the Performance Pack as std which is bound to achieve a couple of goals

1. Current Mustang owners will be tempted to update

2. Ford will increase the price by $10k at RRP

If this is the case it will narrow the gap between the Camaro as from what I'm hearing the 2018 Mustang is a giant leap forward in a few areas .... 6 Spot Front brakes .... more power and torque ... and a tricky new dash like the one in Richo's Audi ...

The only way HSV and Holden are going to be able to have any sort of cred in the market is to bring in the 2SS with the 1LE (naturally aspirated) and set the driveway price at $89995 ....




i have to admit Sniper if your on the money with the pricing (which you usually are), i will be switching camps and getting into a Mustang

FollowTheSapper
04-02-2018, 12:35 PM
https://www.facebook.com/SurvivorCarAustralia/posts/825900944285831


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OctaneInjector
13-04-2018, 03:40 PM
i have to admit Sniper if your on the money with the pricing (which you usually are), i will be switching camps and getting into a MustangAs long as its not a 2 out of 5 star safety rated still i hope for your sake.


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zRoYz
13-04-2018, 11:06 PM
As long as its not a 2 out of 5 star safety rated still i hope for your sake.


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I don't feel that's a problem as with all the money your going to save over the Camaro you can afford top cover medical & a full roll cage :-)

Mikhail
14-04-2018, 07:38 AM
Didn't the new Mustang raise the bar all the way to three stars???

Camaro is more money but it is a much better car.

FLI355
14-04-2018, 09:59 AM
How do you figure the camaro is a much better car than the updated mustang coming: in my opinion the mustang is a much better car and is cheaper.

zRoYz
14-04-2018, 10:55 AM
If I lived US I would buy the camaro 100% over the mustang due to there comparable pricing, unfortunately these days I look for value for money over "I just want one". There is noway in hell I'm paying the extra $$ for the camaro because I'm footing the bill for RHD conversion though HSV. Ford planned ahead with the mustang & it paid off for them, GM were all out at a slumber party & now want the Australian buyer to foot the bill because they missed the boat.

GM take the hit & price the camaro with HSV RHD conversion comparable with the mustang & I'll put a deposit down today.

white_lie
14-04-2018, 11:06 AM
What's the RHD sales on the Mustang? I think they were doing around 1000 a month? From what I remember, HSV are only planning that many Camaro's in a year

I really don't think GM are overly concerned with RHD Camaro's in the global scheme of things but 1000 out of HSV's doors is obviously viable for them and I don't think they'll have any issue selling them

zRoYz
14-04-2018, 01:29 PM
What's the RHD sales on the Mustang? I think they were doing around 1000 a month? From what I remember, HSV are only planning that many Camaro's in a year

I really don't think GM are overly concerned with RHD Camaro's in the global scheme of things but 1000 out of HSV's doors is obviously viable for them and I don't think they'll have any issue selling them

I would say you are correct, but once the buzz dies down & those who just have to own one have one in there possession I think you will find the rest of buyers in that market will look at the price difference especially with the new release mustang. The problem I see is the price difference, yes the mustang was more when they did conversion but they sold because there was no other choice. There is now choice cheaper mustang or much more expensive camaro & if you really think about it the camaro isn't a 10K+ better car.

Mikhail
15-04-2018, 01:45 PM
How do you figure the camaro is a much better car than the updated mustang coming: in my opinion the mustang is a much better car and is cheaper.

Track results. The new mustang may improve but currently the camaro is a better drivers car.

Pickles
15-04-2018, 03:00 PM
How do you figure the camaro is a much better car than the updated mustang coming: in my opinion the mustang is a much better car and is cheaper.

I like the Mustang, particularly the upgraded edition with more grunt & the 10 speed auto, it will be a great car, and as the Bullitt car will be coming to Aus with even better specs, I would be seriously tempted.....the Bullitt car will be a sensation, Ford Aus will not be able to get enough of them.
Sure, the Mustang is cheaper, and no doubt it's a ripper car, BUT from what I've read, build quality & particularly the interior is average, and this where the Camaro will be a "better" car.
At the end of the day though, it's down to personal choice,....we'll see what the opinions are when the Aussie motoring "Gurus" start writing their comparison road tests?
I reckon HSV will do a ripper job on the conversion.
Pickles.

Silverfox666
21-04-2018, 10:13 PM
I am
A panelbeater and where I work in Sydney we are having ford deliver brand new unregistered Mustangs where we have to realign panel gaps and re paint whole cars because people that buy them are unhappy with the paint work from the factory , it is absolutely terrible build quality and paint finish , also the quality of the panels with ripples here and there is really noticeable I would NEVER buy a mustang the quality is the worsted I have ever seen from a production car .....

craze
21-04-2018, 10:26 PM
A friend bought a mustang and the panel gaps are disgusting

Worst ive seen

Pickles
22-04-2018, 06:55 AM
I am
A panelbeater and where I work in Sydney we are having ford deliver brand new unregistered Mustangs where we have to realign panel gaps and re paint whole cars because people that buy them are unhappy with the paint work from the factory , it is absolutely terrible build quality and paint finish , also the quality of the panels with ripples here and there is really noticeable I would NEVER buy a mustang the quality is the worsted I have ever seen from a production car .....

That is good info.
Thanks for posting, Pickles.

Mikhail
22-04-2018, 09:03 AM
Is the Camaro any better? Is it Ford churning Mustangs out as fast as they can, a result of the price point and quality control that is allowed or a generic manufacturing regime in the US?

Nth57l
22-04-2018, 10:08 AM
A mate was telling me he goes to the USA a lot and often rents Dodge Challengers and he mentioned they had issues like described above (his last one was basically brand new and yet he said had atrocious panel gaps) so I wouldn't think the Camaro would be any different either. Just American cars I guess. Real hit and miss from what I can tell.

GenF-GTS
22-04-2018, 10:48 AM
A mate was telling me he goes to the USA a lot and often rents Dodge Challengers and he mentioned they had issues like described above (his last one was basically brand new and yet he said had atrocious panel gaps) so I wouldn't think the Camaro would be any different either. Just American cars I guess. Real hit and miss from what I can tell.

Dodge cannot be compared to a Chevrolet car some people over here confuse them for some reason but they are 2 totally different manufacturers and are in no way associated, so to rent a ford and a dodge and say Chevy is the same isn’t true

Mikhail
22-04-2018, 12:02 PM
Dodge cannot be compared to a Chevrolet car some people over here confuse them for some reason but they are 2 totally different manufacturers and are in no way associated, so to rent a ford and a dodge and say Chevy is the same isn’t true

Pretty sure he meant the same as in same manufacturing culture rather than saying they are the same make. Anyway Dodge dont sell cars for roads that have corners.

FollowTheSapper
22-04-2018, 12:59 PM
Pretty sure he meant the same as in same manufacturing culture rather than saying they are the same make. Anyway Dodge dont sell cars for roads that have corners.

They did until they stopped making the Viper


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GenF-GTS
22-04-2018, 04:12 PM
I saw a mustang at the track and asked to see under the hood.
This was an Australian bought one 2017 model and the hood release was on the passenger side

white_lie
22-04-2018, 04:42 PM
A lot of vehicles have had them on the passenger side. I know a lot of VW, Renault, Mini's etc were like that. It's not a big deal for most, they probably wouldn't ever use it. It's more difficult to get used to the wipers and indicators being opposites

TPKW30
22-04-2018, 05:10 PM
Cook & I go to the States every year, and every trip I go to anything & everything car related.
Since the Camaro 5 has been released, the Camaro is light years ahead of the competition
in regards to build quality. I reckon because of Australian design.
The Dodge Challenger is nearly as bad as an 70's Valiant Charger..........

Pickles
22-04-2018, 05:16 PM
They did until they stopped making the Viper


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Lol,...mate, I LOVED the Viper,..... 8L of "American Muscle", MASSIVE grunt, but cornering was not one of it's best attributes.
Would I own one, if I could?....absolutely!
Pickles.

FollowTheSapper
22-04-2018, 07:18 PM
Lol,...mate, I LOVED the Viper,..... 8L of "American Muscle", MASSIVE grunt, but cornering was not one of it's best attributes.
Would I own one, if I could?....absolutely!
Pickles.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180422/1789b16b0525f079d904b229ced9f778.jpg

6th at the ring for a factory car doesn’t seem to bad for a car that cannot corner.



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Nth57l
22-04-2018, 08:39 PM
Pretty sure he meant the same as in same manufacturing culture rather than saying they are the same make.

Yes, thanks, I thought that would have been obvious, particularly with the last line but I guess not. Suppose we will find out first hand soon when the Camaro comes down under. Although probably not comparable numbers to know for sure.