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Sniper
14-07-2014, 10:19 AM
Cam choice is a minefield at best . . . nearly every tuner has an opinion about what works and what doesnt . . .

I think it pays to have some sort of understanding before you book in for a Cam upgrade

I your car is "Cammed" . . . post up some info and comment . . . good or bad

Here is an interesting article from Lunati that is wort a read

http://www.lsxtv.com/news/lunati-explains-camshaft-profile-terms/

If you have any other interesting articles . . . please post up a link

07GTS
14-07-2014, 06:31 PM
here are a few videos from VCM about there range of camshafts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4Ol-uVCvr8 forced induction

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZlHoR8_E2o auto stock stall

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm8r4uAchws street performance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOi2PjMOms0 top power

moray066
14-07-2014, 07:03 PM
Great clips, thanks for sharing
Once I'm in my new place I'll be saving up for my next purchase, not sure what yet but it will be something older. Something I can tinker with, would love to fit one of the aggressive cams and have that awesome lumpy idle!
But the way we're being stung with upgrades, to just about everything! I'll probably be fighting to keep my E!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

camaloo
15-07-2014, 07:21 AM
Hi everyone,I recently had a cam job done on my Maloo, I researched all the info I could find which was good to get an understanding of it all , but in the end left it up to my tuner Actives to give me the best advice ,initially recommending one,we then changed to one more suited to an auto, only a little difference in final out comes.The cam work exceeded my expectations more in the the way the engine performed,than the rwhp gained.

Sniper
15-07-2014, 10:21 AM
in the end left it up to my tuner Actives to give me the best advice ,initially recommending one,we then changed to one more suited to an auto, only a little difference in final out comes.The cam work exceeded my expectations more in the the way the engine performed,than the rwhp gained.

Ed's knowledge and development of LS Cams probably exceeds anyone else in Australia . . . or the planet for that matter . . . the LS community in WA probably have the best choice of Cams (in stock) in Australia . . . and the good thing about Active is if your not totally happy with your choice they'll swap it - usually for something bigger - lol

XR8TEDVY2
15-07-2014, 11:54 PM
I would like to comment I the importance of getting the right cam so your car doesn't turn from a car you love to a car you hate. Please do your research when getting a cam upgrade. Research the tuner most of all.
I had a cam, otr ect Instal done by Eddie at Actives here in Perth and it was a pleasure to drive with a great power spread. I chose A gives after many hours of research on the net. It paid off!
A mate of mine had the exact same model clubby and took it to a place we have all 'discussed' here in Perth as being very ordinary. The rwhp was a claimed 402 hp cam only ls1. My 388 rwhp ls1 would eat it not to mention his cas would use 2 l per 100 ks more than mine and was extremely fumey inside the cab. Through my badgering he took it to Actives for a retune where it run up 360 off the bat. Eddie tuned it to 377 plus also made it more drivable but still not as good as mine.
Do your homework wherever you are!

mickyinc
24-09-2014, 12:05 AM
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/engines-drivetrain/0911gmhtp-chevy-ls3-engine-camshaft-comparison/viewall.html#

LSTNR
24-09-2014, 08:20 PM
happy to help :)

white_lie
24-09-2014, 09:15 PM
Ummm?

lmoengnr
25-09-2014, 01:26 AM
Ummm?

Luis is a well known tuner in Melbourne.

Sniper
25-09-2014, 06:29 AM
happy to help :)

Hey mate . . . given your expertise and experience with LS . . . I think it would be good if you gave us your fav Cam choices for Auto & Manual - separately of course . . . maybe even your Fav SC Cam too . . .

. . . and let some discussing run from there!!

Members on here have different tastes in Cams - some want torque . . . some want peak power and Revs . . . and some want the aggressive idle and some don't! . . .

mickyinc
25-09-2014, 07:21 AM
For me personally the hardest thing about my last build was which cam. Its easy deciding on most engine components, but when your dealing with an unfamiliar engine it make's it that much harder.
Usually you can compare a few different cams in a similar engine that your after by going for a drive with people you know who have them. For me going to a 454ci I didn't have anything to compare it with, had only gone for a drive in a truck with a 454ci and had to fully rely on hear say , be it from someone with experience to someone like me. my cam now is 239/254 625/595 lift 114+3
The fact remains I still don't know and the only way im going to find out is buy doing a few cam swaps. Advise from knowledgeable and experienced people is awesome but It doesn't beat the feel of ya pants.
For my ass its, hp is great but its torque that gets you there, a mild lope, and do it under 7000rpm

GenF-GTS
25-09-2014, 02:37 PM
Cam retainer plate....makes the process a little quicker.....only a little though...haha

mickyinc
25-09-2014, 06:46 PM
thanks for that little piece of wisdom.. lol
How many cams did you try and what were there characteristics?

Ramjet
25-09-2014, 11:49 PM
I put in the VCM 5 SC 4 weeks ago. Stilling sorting out the tune and the running gear. It made a big difference to the WP setup i have. Broken 2 axles in 2 weeks! (scratching my head a bit?)
It has a great half lumpy idle and just power everywhere. Once the new gearbox and 2500 stall goes in it will be good in traffic I reckon. At the moment I have to select neutral at the lights with the standard stall.

GenF-GTS
25-09-2014, 11:59 PM
thanks for that little piece of wisdom.. lol
How many cams did you try and what were there characteristics?

Just the 1 cam, but it was about 5 or so phone calls to different shops, then loads of reading.
I found when I got that ikky feeling from some shops walk away.

My cam worked really well I was very happy, I would easily choose it again.

rodders188
26-09-2014, 12:35 AM
I put in the VCM 5 SC 4 weeks ago. Stilling sorting out the tune and the running gear. It made a big difference to the WP setup i have. Broken 2 axles in 2 weeks! (scratching my head a bit?)
It has a great half lumpy idle and just power everywhere. Once the new gearbox and 2500 stall goes in it will be good in traffic I reckon. At the moment I have to select neutral at the lights with the standard stall.

Who did your cam and that cam vcm 5sc was recommended by 3 workshops in Perth.

Ramjet
26-09-2014, 01:25 AM
I don`t know who else has one in? I did the homework myself, spoke to VCM and purchased the kit direct from them, then had it put in locally at Mandurah.
I am very happy with it. There is heaps of torque there and it likes to rev. Just got it running OK re AFR and should have the new gearbox by next week. getting that setup correctly and then the proper Dyno Tune together. Going to be interesting to see what figures come up?
Totally amazing the increase in power. Love it and the sound lol.
I was the white Clubby that broke the axle on the line early at WAW last week. Was going to go last night but broke another axle doing a test run before I left. (2 kl from home so an easy tow).
I am either having a bad run of axles and/or making some serious power? Have had no problems before the cam went in? Anyway I`ll put another in tmw and try again!

mickyinc
26-09-2014, 01:53 AM
so the VCM5sc is a 224/230 114lsa?? What new gearbox are you getting?

mickyinc
26-09-2014, 01:54 AM
Genf-GTS care to share the cam specs you were running?

Nath
26-09-2014, 12:35 PM
I put in the VCM 5 SC 4 weeks ago. Stilling sorting out the tune and the running gear. It made a big difference to the WP setup i have. Broken 2 axles in 2 weeks! (scratching my head a bit?)
It has a great half lumpy idle and just power everywhere. Once the new gearbox and 2500 stall goes in it will be good in traffic I reckon. At the moment I have to select neutral at the lights with the standard stall.

I too am investigating the VCM 5sc - although now a little worried hearing about you chewing through 2 axles!

VCM cam is 224/232 114.5

Is your car supercharged Ramjet?

Whats an axle worth?

white_lie
26-09-2014, 12:41 PM
About 50 bucks from the wreckers! Or get some good G Force ones. Disposable parts with hard launches... That said, I'm yet to do one *touch wood*

GenF-GTS
26-09-2014, 01:55 PM
Genf-GTS care to share the cam specs you were running?

248/256 .662"/.648" 114+3

Nath
26-09-2014, 01:55 PM
Are you on stock axles still whitelie?

Whats the G Force ones worth (installed) locally?

pir4te
26-09-2014, 02:11 PM
I spec'd my current cam around carrying a load in a wagon, maximising flex fuel economy and retaining AFM as it sees mainly highway use.
So I am currently fitting a cam phaser and suitable high compression pistons, keeping the cam lift to 0.500" on AFM lifters and leveraging that to 0.544" via rockers, mid 20's int, high 20s ext. Same AFM cam on sedan gets 11s with 3.27 gears.
Cam has +4 in the grind, LSA 115 with retard controlled by the ECU so it ticks all the boxes with regard to idle, low down torque and power at higher RPM.
Main reason for going to the effort of activating VVT is to manage high DCR on ethanol, and drivability on pump crap if I get caught out in the middle of whoop whoop.

white_lie
26-09-2014, 02:19 PM
Are you on stock axles still whitelie?

Whats the G Force ones worth (installed) locally?

Yeah mate, I see them as a fusible link lol
Cheaper to change those than the diff or tailshaft.

Couldn't tell you a price locally, they're about US$800-1200 depending on how strong you want them... Then inner and outer stubs etc. Just keeps going, make something stronger and it will just transfer the force to the next weak section.

mickyinc
26-09-2014, 05:31 PM
Not a big split in that cam Genf, big lift tho. I should have gone the ls7 heads

mickyinc
26-09-2014, 05:34 PM
What gave you the idea to get a cam phaser Pir4te?

mickyinc
26-09-2014, 05:37 PM
http://www.tuffcarparts.com/image/cache/data/Diffs,%20Axles,%20Driveshafts,%20Gears/Gforce1320/Gforce%20L1%20and%202%20VE%20Axles%20Set%20gforce1 320%201320%20tuff%20car%20parts%20commodore%20hsv% 20sedan%20ute%20wagon-500x500.JPG
$2199 a pair of 750hp gforce axels and got em in stock

pir4te
26-09-2014, 05:57 PM
What gave you the idea to get a cam phaser Pir4te?

VTEC Yo!

Nah seriously way back the L76 truck motor had it (and L99 for a while now too) and isn't all that hard to enable seeing I've already got the LOMA with the AFM (I have an L77). Plus was going dome, forged with reliefs to get more out of e85 anyways so more PTV opened the door to VVT. Chose current cam after weighing up +6 in the grind (109 icl), settled on +4 for this proof of concept, not a race car.

mickyinc
26-09-2014, 06:07 PM
be great if you keep us updated

GenF-GTS
26-09-2014, 07:37 PM
Not a big split in that cam Genf, big lift tho. I should have gone the ls7 heads

Here is an idle video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awYY5Y0ErC4

Ramjet
26-09-2014, 08:30 PM
so the VCM5sc is a 224/230 114lsa?? What new gearbox are you getting?

I`m planning a few upgrades and have a bit of fun. Can`t ride my bike at the moment so having about my third or fourth mid life crisis, lol. So I thought why not do it properly. The 6L80e seem to spit the dummy with a bit of HP, so I googled around and found what the problems with it are. Lot of videos on the subject. Result, I`m getting a new gearbox built with all the good U.S.A gear and more importantly have someone who reckons he has the tuning of these boxes solved. Which maybe is where the real problem has been? Time & $$$ will tell the story I guess.
So a new wavetrac diff, Improved HD gearbox and GForce axles (still coming???) should put the drive train to bed and then if it pans out OK and is reliable, then I get more serious with an engine (maybe 427). At the moment 2 axles in 8 days has got me desperate to get hold of the GForce ones ASAP.
If all turns to S@#t then I put the original gearbox, diff, axles and other stuff back in and save up for A VF GTS (probably cheaper in the long run, lol) Gotta love the drive lines and engine potential of those suckers.

Ramjet
26-09-2014, 09:08 PM
I too am investigating the VCM 5sc - although now a little worried hearing about you chewing through 2 axles!

VCM cam is 224/232 114.5

Is your car supercharged Ramjet?

Whats an axle worth?

WP 2300 SC Nath. Got it a bit cheap, but now I know I stuffed up as the Magnuson setup is way much better. OTR for example.
Still thinking about making something up for the WP. But the offset inlet makes it a hard can do.
I purchased some "surtrack" HD 25% stronger axles on EBay ( about $600 i think). Was a quick fix while waiting for the 1000HP GForce ($1700 approx delivered). But smashed the outside CV to pieces. They said they will replace it but not holding my breath.
Replaced it with the original OEM axle and sheared the diff end spline. SOooo Clubby now jacked up no axles, diff going in for strip and assessment and I am wondering what the hell i have put together HP wise? Exhaust is Ceramic long tubes, 200 cats, WP mid piping and Varex muffllers plus the VCM 5 SC. Very very loud when open. totally awesome sound (opinion from others) and sounds great at the lights with the loping cam. These axles failing really have me scratching my head. I don`t think it is "over the top" HP wise. I would have thought maybe 560 RWHP if I was lucky, maybe wrong??
Any suggestions appreciated, I can`t see much point of dragging it until the better axles arrive. All work to date has been from reputable workshops. Only ripping it apart myself now and then send the parts in for inspection.

white_lie
26-09-2014, 09:22 PM
Did you break the axle or the inner stub? Sounds like the inner stub on the second lot if it was the splined shaft.
Have seen plenty of axles go on bolt on cars and plenty hang together with big power and hard launches. Definitely luck of the draw!

Ramjet
26-09-2014, 10:28 PM
Did you break the axle or the inner stub? Sounds like the inner stub on the second lot if it was the splined shaft.
Have seen plenty of axles go on bolt on cars and plenty hang together with big power and hard launches. Definitely luck of the draw!

Ist one totally broke the outer side CV. Twisted and broke the cage. Totally mangled.
The second was the inner stub spline. Sheared off at the circlip groove. I still can`t get this into my head as the remaining longest spline should have held together? I asked the Diff shop this morning what would cause it. He said to much HP. Even tho the both CV`s were OK the remaining spline shaft should have held. As it was, when jacked it up, I could turn the axle fully going into the diff, but it would not turn the tail shaft. The other side no worries it would rotate the driveline.
That`s why my original question about different axle lengths.
If some one could explain it to me would be great. A mechanic had a look today at the broken end spline and agreed with me.
Maybe damaged the diff? But the other side turns perfectly, nice and smooth and rotates the drive shaft easily.
Bloody confused I can tell you?
Anyway I will drop the oil tmw and then take the Diff in Monday (warranty maybe?)

white_lie
26-09-2014, 10:36 PM
Not sure how the wavetrack works but I'd imagine you could turn either side and it transfers thru. Otherwise it's like an open centre... But it may need some sort of force/load on it rather than just turning by hand.

Probably want stronger inner and outer stubs as well then to go with the shafts... But you end up blowing 7-10k on the complete rear end!

mickyinc
26-09-2014, 10:45 PM
sounds gr8. I booked mine in for a tune today so if all goes well will post a vid on the 13th. Customs have finally released my fuel system so now all i got to do is wait on Australia post to get it to me. its been 14 days since it left the U.S via USPS and they posted me upgraded parts on Tuesday via fedex and i. got them today, wonder why Aus post is making a loss, its Aus post who cause this delay, i wont use them again.

Ramjet... if i had to guess I'd say your going for the Patc super phoenix kit. If im correct i hope you ordered the billet planetary with it . without it that box will go bang. I know of 2 boxes that went bang using that kit , the tuner better be good, its do-able tho. That's if i had to guess
. If im correct i can give you a number of a guy in Melbourne who has it pretty much down pat, that your builder can ask any questions he may have.... ive said this before on here and the vf gts guys didn't like it, but my engine builder is starting to see the lsa coming in the door now after they've been upgraded without better components....sorry vf gts guys

white_lie
26-09-2014, 10:48 PM
USPS are terrible. Usually takes 3-4 weeks to get anything. Definitely use the slow boat! FedEx, DHL, most of the couriers are less than a week.

GenF-GTS
27-09-2014, 12:44 AM
Honestly this is a mistake many people make, you upgrade 1 part and now the weak link moves to the next area, you are best off just doing the whole drive line, chromoly tailshaft, billet yokes, upgrade the diff, while you are there get stronger ring gear, do the inner/outer stubs and the drive shafts aka half shafts and also do the wheel studs.

Do any less you will have the question in your head whats going to blow next....and wait until it does and possibly cause more damage.

Your stock driveline gearbox to wheel studs are not made for high HP.

I went through all of this with my last car breaking 2 carbon fibre gfroce1320 shafts, also breaking the half shaft spline that runs into the wheel stub. Just replace the lot.

I ended up using driveshaft shop 2 piece chromoly tailshaft, whatever gfroce1320's strongest half shafts were and his inner/outer stubs along with ARP wheel studs.....while you are at it put a tailshaft loop in.

mickyinc
27-09-2014, 01:37 AM
if you don't mind me asking , how much all of that set you back. Im thinking that i will have to do something similar, unless your like one of the guys who drove for me and smash everything u touch. One season he did 6 gearboxes, 3 diffs, 5 engines, 2 new shells. The next season i drove and did none of the above , just went thru 4 sets of panels which is normal

GenF-GTS
27-09-2014, 01:45 AM
I cant remember the cost....it does add up fast.

the carbon drive shafts never worked for me.....I am unsure if it was torque or that there is a minor offset between diff and gearbox in the 2002 model.

The spline on the half shaft I would consider a "real" break if the carbon shafts....were considered "faulty products"

Either way the stock driveline is built to handle stock power levels, driven on the street not at a race track and considered capable of handling street driving eg not doing burning or fast/hard take off's....basically drive normal and nice it will last.

Race the car in any fashion the driveline will eventually break, fix that weak link then the weak link well move to the next weak link and so on.

This is one of the main selling points of why I bought the new VF GTS, guys in the states are making 700-750rwhp without any issues. My only concern would probably take place above that HP level or just bad luck would be the transmission + outer wheel stubs and wheels studs.

Ramjet
27-09-2014, 02:02 AM
Thanks Mickyinc. I have 2 shops involved one to build the box and he is liaising with the tuner, who is of the opinion that the tune is what has been the main culprit. Both reckon they have now finally solved the problems. I`ll soon know it`s my $$$$. But what I have spent months googling, they seem to have the right answers to. I`m to far in now to change anything, so will suck it and see. But I will surely take you up on the offer mate if it all goes south.

And you are totally spot on GenF in everything you just typed. I can see this turning into what you described. I don`t want anymore HP than I have now (what ever it is?). I just want the drive train reliable to handle 550 to 600 RWHP. Street and strip.
Getting axles seems to be the problem at the moment and yes a tail shaft loop is definitely happening.
Hmmm CF tailshaft?

mickyinc
27-09-2014, 02:06 AM
Were you getting any wheel tramp?
I better start saving.
What are the differences between the ve and vf with axles,

GenF-GTS
27-09-2014, 02:10 AM
Were you getting any wheel tramp?
I better start saving.
What are the differences between the ve and vf with axles,

Should be no difference other than the VF GTS. I just posted the ZL1 upgrade kit in the other thread....same driveline as the VF GTS.

mickyinc
27-09-2014, 02:16 AM
Ramjet, i have the full Patc super phoenix kit with the billet planetary. I'd been studying it for awhile then i saw a torque converter on ebay which i knew came from that kit, so i contacted the guy and asked him if its ok to discuss what he had been doing. The 1st on burnt every clutch , the second one broke the planetary shaft which was oem, both were related to the tuning i thought. I ended up getting mine built from the same guy, he had worked out the quirks in putting it together, took him 2 weeks the 1st one. For the tune i contacted a guy in the states

Ramjet
27-09-2014, 03:57 PM
Ramjet, i have the full Patc super phoenix kit with the billet planetary. I'd been studying it for awhile then i saw a torque converter on ebay which i knew came from that kit, so i contacted the guy and asked him if its ok to discuss what he had been doing. The 1st on burnt every clutch , the second one broke the planetary shaft which was oem, both were related to the tuning i thought. I ended up getting mine built from the same guy, he had worked out the quirks in putting it together, took him 2 weeks the 1st one. For the tune i contacted a guy in the states

You are correct I think Mick. From what I can understand, the problem with these gearboxes (and I am not a mechanic), is not so much the parts that go in but the tune is what is the problem. If you put in the best parts available in and still blow it, which has been happening. Then the logical next step is to look at the tune and that is where maybe the secret is? They are a complex electronic controlled box. To get all those clutches to fully disengage before the next one is selected in fractions of a second is maybe why they are burning out? That`s how it was explained to me and the proof will be in what results I get.
I hope it isn`t an expensive disaster, but I thought it worth a try after a lot of reading, mainly from the states. And that is where my guy has been doing his R&D also. He drove my car around for an hour with a laptop in his lap and transformed my standard box to another level. Ultra quick, crisp changes just to show me what he has learnt.
I`ll keep you posted (depending on the axle situation, lol).

Ramjet
27-09-2014, 04:04 PM
Should be no difference other than the VF GTS. I just posted the ZL1 upgrade kit in the other thread....same driveline as the VF GTS.

To late now for me GenF. But that is the way I should have gone. I`ll do the numbers and see what I can afford. This is getting way more expensive than playing around with motorbikes! But still damn enjoyable. Beats giving money to the ex missus lol.