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Sniper
16-06-2014, 10:16 AM
I've decided to add this thread for a bit of interest around here . . . in relation to "Historical Knowledge"

It's been prompted by some chit chat around older models and with a thread about the SV88 currently in play I will start with that model

I also urge other members to ask questions about HDT/HSV history too as I will not have a regular daily question myself

Today's question is . . . what was the colour name of the SV88? . . . who was the colour named after - I want his Christian name and Surname . . . and if the person that gets it right can give me his "nickname" . . . That'd be awesome . . . :)

Nitrate
16-06-2014, 10:44 AM
Dorwood

Ian Dorwood

'Blue'

jkhsv
16-06-2014, 10:48 AM
I thought it was Dorward Blue over Jewel Midnight ?

Didn't John Crennan come up with the colour idea ?

Sniper
16-06-2014, 10:48 AM
Dorwood

Ian Dorwood

'Blue'

Correct . . . .

I'll go again with another quick SV88 question . . . What was Ian's relationship with HSV?

RedHotMike
16-06-2014, 10:59 AM
He was the first workshop manager at HSV

Sniper
16-06-2014, 11:25 AM
He was the first workshop manager at HSV

Correct . . . he was a nice guy but didn't stay too long .. . I think he was ex TWR but I'm not 100% sure . . . He was long gone before they moved to Clayton

So I'll go another staffer question ... and I am sure this info is in the "Garages" thread somewhere but . . . who was the first "parts & procurement" Manager at Notting Hill?

Strick
16-06-2014, 09:14 PM
I cant answer the questions, but this is fantastic to learn more about the brand i love!

jkhsv
17-06-2014, 04:34 PM
Not sure if we can ask questions in here so if we cannot please delete this post but.....

Does anyone know if the VS Senator 215i with Hydratrac come with leather appointed seats from factory and cloth as I do not recall them having leather :confused: ?

With leather trim...
http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Holden-Special-Vehicles-Senator-1996/SSE-AD-962376/?Cr=2&sdmvc=1

With cloth trim....
http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Holden-Special-Vehicles-Senator-1996/SSE-AD-1141616/?Cr=1&sdmvc=1

HSVGTS125
17-06-2014, 05:43 PM
Yes the VS Senator did have leather as an option.
That cloth trim interior is series 1. Its much nicer than the series 2.

Nitrate
17-06-2014, 06:43 PM
Correct . . . he was a nice guy but didn't stay too long .. . I think he was ex TWR but I'm not 100% sure . . . He was long gone before they moved to Clayton

So I'll go another staffer question ... and I am sure this info is in the "Garages" thread somewhere but . . . who was the first "parts & procurement" Manager at Notting Hill?
Was it John Harvey or Tony Wilson? :)

A very big guess, I really don't know.......

Sniper
17-06-2014, 08:25 PM
Sorry Ben . . . Harves was Marketing Manager on day one . . . Tony Wilson came along many years later

The answer is Rex Nesbitt . . . a good lad was Rex . . . does anyone know what he is up to these days

Sniper
18-06-2014, 09:26 PM
This question is loaded with conjecture but it must be asked so all on this forum understand a very important part of the whole SV mentality back in the HDT era

What did the "VL HDT Pluspack" consist of? . . . I want every item . . . however, I am hoping a few members put there thoughts on here as we work towards the entire list . . . there was a document back in 1986 listing the components but it wasn't "TOTALLY" complete . . . go for it guys as I am yet to see the list in "total" anywhere else

XR8TEDVY2
18-06-2014, 09:43 PM
Plus pack had obviously the Polariser and the following I believe
Peter Brock sticker, revised springs,different anti roll bars, different front suspension geo, spring mounting pads, improved cylinder head cooling with extra water jackets in the heads and a higher pressure fuel pump. I think there were 150-160 built out of 500.

Sniper
18-06-2014, 09:54 PM
Not a bad start . . I'll start a list with your items

1. Polarizer
2. Front & Rear Springs
3. Geometry
4. Rear Spring Pads
5. Front Strut top mounts
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Etc etc

I want a little more accuracy with the fuel system and cooling . . . and sway bars!!

There was quite a lot more to the Pluspack

RedHotMike
18-06-2014, 10:23 PM
Filled in some of the gaps below:


Not a bad start . . I'll start a list with your items

1. Polarizer
2. Front & Rear Springs
3. Geometry
4. Rear Spring Pads
5. Front Strut top mounts
6. Electric Fuel Pump/Reg & different fuel filters
7. Different Diff Oil
8. Peter Brock signature "plus pack" badging/stickers
9. HDT build number
10.Different Power Steering Hose
11.Modified water jacket to re-route the coolant and stop hotspots at the back of the cyl heads
12.Your very own framed print of a PP Group A signed by PB and numbered with your build number

Etc etc

I want a little more accuracy with the fuel system and cooling . . . and sway bars!!

There was quite a lot more to the Pluspack

ps. I think they fitted extra washers to the front of the castor rods on the PP's too

walkysa
18-06-2014, 10:25 PM
No idea about sway bar differences but it had an extra water passage to the head and a higher pressure fuel pump. Brock also only put his signature on the Pluspacks.

WalkySA

Sniper
18-06-2014, 10:42 PM
Red Hot Mike has made some more inroads but there is still a long way to go

I'm not trying to be pedantic but at some point the Pluspack list must be properly documented and between us on here that's the intention

The fuel system was upgraded with the VL EFI fuel pump and filter and the pressure to the Rochester Quadrajet was controlled by a Holley Blue pressure reguator set at 3lb to avoid the carby flooding

The Diff oil was left at OE spec but Nulon (pink) additive was added

There was quite a few additional decals - 6 in total - I want to know all six and where they went

The HDT build number and plate also has a story!!!

Revised power steering hose is correct

Modified cooling to the heads is correct and probably needs a full description . . . someone can add to this with the details and parts used to facilitate this mod

Yes there was a print hand signed by PB with the build number

walkysa
18-06-2014, 10:50 PM
where is Pickles when we need him?

Sniper
18-06-2014, 10:53 PM
where is Pickles when we need him?

Lol . . C'mon . . you can do better than that!!!

RedHotMike
18-06-2014, 11:02 PM
Red Hot Mike has made some more inroads but there is still a long way to go

I'm not trying to be pedantic but at some point the Pluspack list must be properly documented and between us on here that's the intention

The Diff oil was left at OE spec but Nulon (pink) additive was added

Was added to the box too


There was quite a few additional decals - 6 in total - I want to know all six and where they went

pedantic eh????

Nose: "Plus Pack" C/W PB signature
Rear window: Polarizer sticker
each wheel: 22Psi/1.57Kpa near the valve (5 in total ;))
Diff, gearbox: "HDT Approved QC" Decals
Diff: "Nulon" decal on the hat
Rear 1/4 windows: "Peri Design Optimisation" decal (2 in total)
Front guards: PB signature

Which makes far more than 6 decals :p

Sniper
18-06-2014, 11:17 PM
Was added to the box too

pedantic eh????

Nose: "Plus Pack" C/W PB signature
Rear window: Polarizer sticker
each wheel: 22Psi/1.57Kpa near the valve (5 in total ;))
Diff, gearbox: "HDT Approved QC" Decals
Diff: "Nulon" decal on the hat
Rear 1/4 windows: "Peri Design Optimisation" decal (2 in total)
Front guards: PB signature

Which makes far more than 6 decals :p

Lol . . . I'm more than happy to be wrong mate

The decal on the front nose cone (pass side) was the Brock Signature with PLUSPACK written underneath - silver decal

The signatures on the front guards were silver - these decals were originally made/printed as the Signature with the SS GroupA all in one decal and the signature was cut off for the production car . . . Then stuck back on for the Plus Packs . . . There were 2 separate decals for the LHS & RHS guards with PB's autograph on the forward end of each decal

The RHS rear quarter window had a red and blue Peter Brock Pluspack decal and the LHS rear quarter window had the Peri Integration decal - there were 2 different types of Peri decal depending on the timing of the Pluspack fitment

This question is starting to bring back some interesting memories from 27 1/2 years ago . . .

SV90
19-06-2014, 02:13 AM
Hdt's letter to dealers reguarding the plus pack
http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww301/HSV_SV_90/imagejpg1_zpsf4f5ec7f.jpg

HDT official plus pack description
http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww301/HSV_SV_90/imagejpg1_zpsb7dd6437.jpg


Plus pack decals, rear window decal was said the be a aerial ? There where also a couple alfoil like badges placed n the inside of some kit panels to conduct the polarised energy. I would have to search for those pics. And yes the 22 psi tyre placard.

http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww301/HSV_SV_90/imagejpg3_zps61070cfa.jpg

http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww301/HSV_SV_90/imagejpg2_zpsa44d9719.jpg

Plus pack suspension

http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww301/HSV_SV_90/imagejpg1_zps3fc471cc.jpg

HDT level 2 suspension, was painted purple.

http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww301/HSV_SV_90/imagejpg1_zpsa956f870.jpg


Early polariser figment sheet, as it was fitted in a metal surround, also early plus packs had the polariser fitted on the right hand side of the motor and was later moved to the left between the Holden compliance plates.

http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww301/HSV_SV_90/imagejpg1_zpscd19486e.jpg

DB techs official information on the polariser

http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww301/HSV_SV_90/imagejpg1_zpsbe10d007.jpg

After the back lash of the polariser, and people questioning Brocks sanity. He then when to " hidden polarisers " in the cars, but that's another story.

Graeme's pp is a outstanding model, pickles also had a outstanding pp. And car # 500 owned by peter champion is the one that Brocky described as the pp best he made, with factory Yamaha stereo. Plus pack buyers also received a hand signed litho gram picture of the car which are very rare, see one in link below

http://australianmusclecarsales.com.au/muscle/102330-hdt_vl_groupa_ss_genuine_plus?query=hdt

Nitrate
19-06-2014, 09:01 AM
Graeme, I noticed PB signature on the back left of your GPA PP boot lid. Can we have some more information please?

http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/b510/holmesben/Snipers_VLGPAPP_zps9ce97887.jpg

Sniper
19-06-2014, 10:32 AM
Graeme, I noticed PB signature on the back left of your GPA PP boot lid. Can we have some more information please?

I was in the Bertie Street staff carpark (parked next to DAT 149) at the 87 Nationals and Brock was wandering around talking to a few of us about this 'n that . . . how he had 21lb in the front and 19lb in the rear of DAT 149 with different springs etc etc . . . he commented that I didn't have the 22lb stickers on my wheels and I said they didn't come with the Plus Pack I got so he went over to parts an grabbed some and brought back a signature and said that was one of the design ideas from Holden to have a sig on the boot - so I put it on there and then

Back in those days we had unlimited contact with PB . . .

To be honest . . . his dream VL GPA was as mine is . . . the LE side skirts and rear skirt . . . And the Cibie's in the front bar . . . HDT had engineered the front bar to take the lights and had made the specific mounting brackets to suit which mounted to a OE designated spot on the bumper support bar and fitted perfect as they are on mine . . .

Plus the 8" MOMO's . . . . so whilst my GPA is not original in a production sense . . . PB inspired me to make it the way he wanted it . . . I even have a genuine 87 HDT T Shirt with the Group A featured on it with the Cibie's . . . I'll take a pic o it and send it to ya

I guess Holden "over rode" him on the final spec to keep the car under $30k RRP . . .

HDT also had an EFI GPA under development for 1987 (August) production for the next round of Homolgations . . . but that's another story for another day . .

Nitrate
19-06-2014, 11:37 AM
I was in the Bertie Street staff carpark (parked next to DAT 149) at the 87 Nationals and Brock was wandering around talking to a few of us about this 'n that . . . how he had 21lb in the front and 19lb in the rear of DAT 149 with different springs etc etc . . .

I even have a genuine 87 HDT T Shirt with the Group A featured on it with the Cibie's . . . I'll take a pic o it and send it to ya.
OK that explains it, I have seen a few getting around with the LE side skirts and rear aprons. Were these an option or were they a fitted after thought?

Always wondered about the design of the front spoiler, I like the lights fitted, always did. There must have been others that also did this.....

Also I remember seeing some fiberglass bits around back in those days with the HDT embedded in them. Does my memory serve me right? There was a lot of replica stuff getting around back then....

OK found a picture of DAT 149 and have posted the T Shirt photo you sent me RARHS alright, lol.

Any chance of giving us some more information on DAT 149?

http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/b510/holmesben/DAT_149_zps6f1275e5.jpg

http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/b510/holmesben/IMG_2716_zpsa6dfbdaf.jpg

Sniper
19-06-2014, 12:08 PM
OK that explains it, I have seen a few getting around with the LE side skirts and rear aprons. Were these an option or were they a fitted after thought?

Always wondered about the design of the front spoiler, I like the lights fitted, always did. There must have been others that also did this.....

Also I remember seeing some fiberglass bits around back in those days with the HDT embedded in them. Does my memory serve me right? There was a lot of replica stuff getting around back then....

OK found a picture of DAT 149 and have posted the T Shirt photo you sent me RARHS alright, lol.

Any chance of giving us some more information on DAT 149?]

The front bar/spoiler was always designed around having the lights . . and they fit absolutely perfect

The shirts were optional at the time . . . all HDT kits were stamped with the logo excepting the VL GPA/Calais LE Grille . . . which, incidentally were slightly different parts

Dat 149 was a development hack post the Holden Era . . . from my respective it was nothing special apart from it was used to develop certain "Signature Series Group 3" engineering parts . . . Especially the tricky exhaust "Cat Bypass" set up on that model!! . . . . it was pretty much Dave Whiteheads runabout . . .

HSVGTS125
19-06-2014, 01:27 PM
HDT also had an EFI GPA under development for 1987 (August) production for the next round of Homolgations . . . but that's another story for another day . .

I have info on this at home although wont be there for a month to check. From memory, the first twin throttle manifold and efi was a VK test mule

Sniper
19-06-2014, 01:56 PM
I have info on this at home although wont be there for a month to check. From memory, the first twin throttle manifold and efi was a VK test mule

I think you may be correct . . . The first mule that I eyeballed in the flesh was a VL Exec in metallic beige with MOMO's . . . In October 87. . . I have a pic somewhere

Sniper
19-06-2014, 02:42 PM
I think this "Pluspack" question has lost run its course . . . I will have another topic tomorrow

However . . . I am up for further comment as there was a number of critical parts to he Pluspack that made it a better car than what Holden wanted to dish up

I'll break the Pluspack down in a few area's

1. suspension/handling
2. fuel System
3. Polarizer
4. Power Steering
5. Trans/Diff
6. Appearance - Decals
7. Cooling

For me the Pluspack was a must to ensure it was what Brock wanted to deliver to the market . .

It was good to have better geometry, softer initial spring rates . . The decals . . . The EFI Fuel pump etc . . . and the other bits . . . BUT . . . The best item was probably the most basic which was the cooling mod

Essentially the Heads would get far too hot at the back - they would overheat and make both those cylinders hard to tune . HDT's answer was to relieve the heated coolant via additional flow at the back of the A9L . . .

To do this the removed both the rear intake manifold bolts and drille out the threaded hole in the heads into the water jacket to get flow away from that hotspot . . . The flow then came up through the intake manifold bolts and into the heater hose behind the Carby

HDT drilled a small hole in the entire length of the bolt and welded a nipple on the bolt head so the coolant could flow under pressure thru the bolt into the cooling system . . . this was done vie heater hose from the nipples to a H fitting which spread the coolant into the cooling system which in affect took the boiling coolant away in a far more effective manner which in turn made the A9L a more reliable Race Engine that would not run the risk of " blowing" head gaskets

That a pretty crude explanation and I wish I had some pics to better describe it . .

HSVGTS125
19-06-2014, 06:23 PM
I think you may be correct . . . The first mule that I eyeballed in the flesh was a VL Exec in metallic beige with MOMO's . . . In October 87. . . I have a pic somewhere

I have a pic of one with all the computer gear spread all over the place inside. Warrick Bryce was the man behind it.
I think his was a maroon exec

sblair588
19-06-2014, 06:54 PM
Wasn't one of the "biggest" things that the Plus Pack did, was cause a rift between Holden & Brock.

Although not exactly something that Peter Brock or any of us wanted, but I think a piece of history surrounding the vehicle (at least the Polariser part).

RedHotMike
19-06-2014, 07:01 PM
Wasn't one of the "biggest" things that the Plus Pack did, was cause a rift between Holden & Brock.

Although not exactly something that Peter Brock or any of us wanted, but I think a piece of history surrounding the vehicle (at least the Polariser part).

Lol - I think the rift was well and truly established y then.

Sniper
19-06-2014, 07:16 PM
Wasn't one of the "biggest" things that the Plus Pack did, was cause a rift between Holden & Brock.

Well yes and no . . . the problem was brewing in 85 and slowly got worse when the VL LE was introduced with the Polariser and Holden hit the roof . . . then when he wouldn't have his Sig on the GroupA without the polariser it was pretty much "Good night nurse" . . then he debut the Director and didn't invite anyone from Holden (its alleged) . . . and that was that . . . but I am pretty sure it was all over way before then!!

It was an awkward time for all with Eric Dowker and Bev Brock having too much control . . .

Sniper
19-06-2014, 07:28 PM
I'll try an easier one

The VN/VQ era was full of various models and Combos

Name them all . . . and I don't really have all the answers to this given the recent post about a VN SVO . . .

HSVGTS125
19-06-2014, 07:36 PM
Holden certainly wouldn't have been happy with Peri Integration either.
Although not an HDT fan I do find the rise and fall a very interesting story.
The Director, complete with IRS with no crash test data would have had holden livid.

HSVGTS125
19-06-2014, 07:46 PM
Im on the work bus so i may forget a few
Sv3800
SV89
SV enhancement packs
SV5000
Club Sport
T30
SVT-30
Maloo
SV LE sedan and wagon
VQ5000i
SV90
SV91 proto
VN GTS proto
VG LS ute
DMG 90
Opera house edition
Plus 6
8 plus
VN Group A
Police pack vehicles (they had tags)

Sniper
19-06-2014, 07:59 PM
There are more . . . I'm sure Daniel can add . . . a few

A good start though . . . In hindsight there was a lot going on at Notting Hill in a very short period

HSVGTS125
19-06-2014, 08:01 PM
The VQ convertible

HSVGTS125
19-06-2014, 08:54 PM
Challenger V6
SV0
SV100
SV105
SV110
SV115
SV140

The non 100 numbers which I can't remember off the top of my head were V6.

white_lie
19-06-2014, 09:26 PM
SV6
Does the GTS count? I believe they were still built by HSV for export

HSVGTS125
19-06-2014, 09:42 PM
Did HSV do the VN GTS (new Zealand export)?
I thought the VN (& VL) GTS were just holden

SV90
19-06-2014, 10:06 PM
VL Models

Walkinshaw including 9 Calais pack cars
SV 88
F - 20 including CC stamped Company Cars

SV Astra's

SV 1800 sedan both stage 1 and 2
SV 1800 Hatch back both stage 1 and 2
SV Aero enhancement packs


VN Models

SV 3800
SV 89
SV 6
LE sedan
LE wagon
LE Opera House ( Sydney Dealer Team )
SV 5000 white manual prototype
SV 5000 + 15 sent to NZ and the rose grey car sent to the Uk for Tom Walkinshaw now back in Australia.
Plus 8 ( Melbourne Dealer Pack )
DMG ( Brisbane Dealer Pack )
T 30 series 1
Challenger ( Brisbane dealer Pack )
Clubsport initial 60 cars built
Clubsport cars numbered from 160 to 410
SV 90 white prototype car
SV 90
Group A white pilot cars x 2
Group A including 2 repainted black Tooheys give away cars.
Plus 6 ( Melbourne motor show release )
SV 91 proto type
VQ SV 5000i series 1
T 30 series 2
LS sedan ( motor show build ) + 130 units sent to NZ
LS Wagon NZ only

SV Packs

Sv 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 all v6 sedans
SV 15, 25, 35, all V6 wagons

SV 100, 110, 120, 130, 140, 150 all v8 sedans
SV 115, 125, 135. All v8 wagons
SV 200 enhanced VQ
SVO models from sedan, wagon, VQ and including Vg's
Have also seen these variations in VN CC stamped cars standing for company car, and pilot vehicles. Also early cars stamped just Enhanced.

SV90
19-06-2014, 10:13 PM
Did HSV do the VN GTS (new Zealand export)?
I thought the VN (& VL) GTS were just holden

I thought the same, just a holden build. No HSV build tag.

HSVGTS125
19-06-2014, 10:33 PM
I remember seeing the Strathfield VN Group A for sale at summernats 11. They wanted $27k. Was a white prototype repainted duriff red. Wish i bought it.
Also back in the 90s a pilot VN Group A was for sale $20k. It didnt have a body kit which was why i didnt want it. She'd be a collectors item now

SV90
19-06-2014, 10:47 PM
VG Models

Maloo
Ls ( Motor show build )
SVO enhanced cars

VP Models

Clubsport + 8 factory black cars
Sport wagon
SV 91
Plus six ( Melbourne Dealer Market ) Marine Aqua in colour
Maloo + 8 factory black cars
Senator
Senator 5000i
VQ 5000i series 2
Nitron ( Victorian Country Dealer Group )
GTS
SV 93 series 2
Plus Six ( Melbourne Dealer Market ) two tone ruby red over asteroid silver
Formula
Clubsport 5000i + 14 cars sent to NZ

5th Anniversary Models

Senator
Senator 5000i
Clubsport
Maloo
Sport wagon
VQ 5000i series 2


VP Enhanced Models

Sedans stamped EP XX1
Wagons stamped VPE Enhanced

UBS Jackaroo Models

UBS Jackaroo's where also built during the VP Model ( two tone radiant red over light silver shadow tone )
UBS Jackaroo's enhanced stamped SE.

SV90
19-06-2014, 10:52 PM
I remember seeing the Strathfield VN Group A for sale at summernats 11. They wanted $27k. Was a white prototype repainted duriff red. Wish i bought it.
Also back in the 90s a pilot VN Group A was for sale $20k. It didnt have a body kit which was why i didnt want it. She'd be a collectors item now

I remember seeing the same cars, the Strathfield car has now been returned to its original white and both white pilot vehicles are owned by the same person. There was a large article in Australian Muscle Cars Magazine covering the build of the Group As, was a very good read with HSV official documentation. I have it somewhere.
The prototype car you speak of I have seen also, I posted the unique car add years ago on a forum. I will see if I can find it, you are right though would be collectible now.

Sniper
19-06-2014, 10:55 PM
Well I expected the list to be massive but its bigger than I thought

That period in time was a blur for me as I had just started my business and wasn't a buyer . . . I eventually bought a VN GPA in 99

I'll sneak in another question before I hit the sack as I'm off to Launny early in the morning

Lets have a list of wheels thru the VN era .. . and there were plenty . . . From 15" to 17" . . .

I'm planning to make this thread another important part of the HSV history . . .

Once the list is complete I would like Dan to post up all the images . . . Please

SV90
19-06-2014, 10:57 PM
One of the VN Group A test mules, don't know if it went on to be one of the kitted up pilot cars.

http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww301/HSV_SV_90/imagejpg1_zpsa8df07bd.jpg

SV90
19-06-2014, 11:02 PM
Well I expected the list to be massive but its bigger than I thought

That period in time was a blur for me as I had just started my business and wasn't a buyer . . . I eventually bought a VN GPA in 99

I'll sneak in another question before I hit the sack as I'm off to Launny early in the morning

Lets have a list of wheels thru the VN era .. . and there were plenty . . . From 15" to 17" . . .

I'm planning to make this thread another important part of the HSV history . . .

Once the list is complete I would like Dan to post up all the images . . . Please

No problem, I have a interest in VL to VS so enjoy threads like this. I will go back and include the VL models to make it cover all cars produced in the early years.

Sniper
19-06-2014, 11:09 PM
No problem, I have a interest in VL to VS so enjoy threads like this. I will go back and include the VL models to make it cover all cars produced in the early years.

I'm gunna mix the questions up a bit next week and jump a little forward to get some of the newer and younger members involved . . . and then go back to earlier stuff but will try to cover everything of interest

Don't hesitate to generate a question or 3 of your own . . .

HSVGTS125
19-06-2014, 11:09 PM
I knew the strathfield car is white again. Great its original but looked better red.
I wish i kept all those bits of info on these cars but threw them out years ago when moving house because it was just clutter at the time.

Wheels for VN are plenty. I'm up at 4am so I will only mention
HSV family wheel
VL Group A wheel
VN Group A wheel
SV5000
LS wheel
SS wheel (painted and polished)

I will leave the quiz and watch on instead :-)

SV90
19-06-2014, 11:35 PM
I knew the strathfield car is white again. Great its original but looked better red.
I wish i kept all those bits of info on these cars but threw them out years ago when moving house because it was just clutter at the time.

Wheels for VN are plenty. I'm up at 4am so I will only mention
HSV family wheel
VL Group A wheel
VN Group A wheel
SV5000
LS wheel
SS wheel (painted and polished)

I will leave the quiz and watch on instead :-)

Your right, I have to agree it looked good
http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww301/HSV_SV_90/imagejpg1_zps636b6cc2.jpg

I think the white cars looked good also
http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww301/HSV_SV_90/imagejpg2_zps67c60b7a.jpg

07GTS
19-06-2014, 11:59 PM
wow the old strathfield car it was at my local strathfield back when i done work experience there jees forgot all about that thing...

Sniper
20-06-2014, 01:03 AM
I was of the belief that Reg Quammell originally owned the car . . . he was the guy that ran the Strathfield Truck to Shows out of Shepparton

I thought his wife had the Shep Strathfield Shop!!

Pickles
20-06-2014, 10:28 AM
Some very good info here.
A "white" VN Group A?...I remember a white VN Group A, can't remember which one it was, but I'm pretty sure it'd been used in a long distance race. It did have a Holden motor Sport Neill Burns engine in it. Mario Borg bought . He was going to restore it, because it was a genuine "factory" car with a racing history, but he never got around to it, & he sold it.
Which car is that?
Pickles.

Sniper
20-06-2014, 01:37 PM
The VN Group A should gets its own thread soon . . far too much data floating around for it to get washed up in this thread

I'll start that thread over the weekend so it gets the attention it rightly deserves

Back to the wheels . . . The "Family" wheel came in 3 variants . . .

The VL Group A wheel also had a few colour changes . . . Red on the LE . . . Silver on the ClubSport . . . White on the SV 89 . . . and maybe others . . .

sblair588
20-06-2014, 02:00 PM
The VL Group A wheel also had a few colour changes . . . Red on the LE . . . Silver on the ClubSport . . . White on the SV 89 . . . and maybe others . . .

Dark blue as well I think.

Sniper
20-06-2014, 02:42 PM
Dark blue as well I think.

Yep . . . On the SV3800

HSVGTS125
20-06-2014, 02:43 PM
Back to the wheels . . . The "Family" wheel came in 3 variants . . .

. .

Yep, I was being lazy and just said SV5000 and family wheel.

OK so they were
16x8 with flush centre badge for SV5000
16x7 with raised centre badge for whoever ordered it plus the 80 LE wagons
16x8 with the large centre cap covering the wheel nuts that had HSV logo & wreath for the T30, SV90, VQ 5000i

HSVGTS125
20-06-2014, 02:45 PM
Dark blue as well I think.

Rose grey too for the SV3800

Sniper
22-06-2014, 03:58 PM
Time for a fresh question . .

The VY GTS Sedan was everything HSV could throw at the last of the LS1 powered models

List all the features that it had over the regular VY Sedan range

No brochures until all the features have been listed please . . there were plenty . . . .

sblair588
22-06-2014, 04:10 PM
Callaway 300kw engine

adr8
22-06-2014, 04:55 PM
HydraTrak LSD
6-piston front AP calipers with 362mm rotors & 4-piston 343mm rears
Heavy duty version of GM’s 4L60-E four-speed
Pirelli P-Zero 245/35 ZR19 tyres

moray066
22-06-2014, 05:34 PM
Ohlins adjustable shocks
TPMS? Not sure if this was also on others


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Sniper
22-06-2014, 05:43 PM
I don't have all he data here where I am these days so these questions are as much a reminder for me as a learn for others

I'd forgotten about Hydratrak and the TPMS on that model

Did they have HID std or was that an option?

white_lie
22-06-2014, 06:13 PM
Ohlins and TPMS were Series II.
No HID's, just the regular HSV projector headlights
And the "heavy duty" 4L60e is the 4L65e that then followed thru in the VZ's.

Body kit is slightly different with the front fender flares and wider door moulds

Sniper
24-06-2014, 10:29 AM
Well that question fell on its face . . . there was a couple more unique features to he VY GTS . . . . and from my perspective I think this model will become quite desirable and collectible in the future

I'll try another tech question . . . I haven't "pre-researched" this question so I may have my years up the shit but here goes!

The VT 2 GTS had a unique suspension tweak. . . . . which become std across the Holden range in later models

What was that tweak . . .

RedHotMike
24-06-2014, 10:38 AM
Well that question fell on its face . . . there was a couple more unique features to he VY GTS . . . . and from my perspective I think this model will become quite desirable and collectible in the future

I'll try another tech question . . . I haven't "pre-researched" this question so I may have my years up the shit but here goes!

The VT 2 GTS had a unique suspension tweak. . . . . which become std across the Holden range in later models

What was that tweak . . .

It's a complete and utter guess but I'll say the extra suspension arm in the IRS that became standard on VXII onwards.

Sniper
24-06-2014, 11:12 AM
Correct mate . . . It was an interesting tweak that HSV claimed was their idea . . . but apparently Holden had been developing it and HSV grabbed it to help control the tyre wear mess they got into with the VX GTS 19's

So I guess the answer I personally need to know (cos I'm lazy) is which model did it get introduced in? . . . The VT2 or VX1 GTS

. . . Old age and memory loss is setting in . . Lol

SoulJet
24-06-2014, 11:23 AM
I thought the 'multi-link' rear suspension was definitely first used on the VT2 GTS and then introduced across the range in the VX series 2? My memory on the subject isn't that flash either!

Sniper
24-06-2014, 11:34 AM
I thought the 'multi-link' rear suspension was definitely first used on the VT2 GTS and then introduced across the range in the VX series 2? My memory on the subject isn't that flash either!

I think your right . . . at least you can stick your head underneath your GTS and confirm . .

HSVGTS125
24-06-2014, 12:00 PM
I thought the 'multi-link' rear suspension was definitely first used on the VT2 GTS and then introduced across the range in the VX series 2?

Yep that is correct.

SoulJet
24-06-2014, 04:33 PM
I think your right . . . at least you can stick your head underneath your GTS and confirm . .

True! I'd have to compare it to the VT senator though as I wouldn't know what I'm looking at. I've got all the articles, magazines, and sales material at home as well so I can have a look over that to confirm.

white_lie
24-06-2014, 10:11 PM
Well that question fell on its face . . . there was a couple more unique features to he VY GTS . . . . and from my perspective I think this model will become quite desirable and collectible in the future


What are you alluding to Graeme? I'm sure I could pick them, I'm just too 'used to' my car so everything it has seems normal lol
Chainmail leather is another I just thought of. And the roof spoiler?

Strick
24-06-2014, 10:23 PM
Different kit too, black on inserts on the front and rear bars? Different guards too

white_lie
24-06-2014, 10:36 PM
I thought it was the same as the Clubby kit, just different highlight scheme?
I mentioned the fender flares/fairing and wider door moulds earlier, actual guards are run of the mill VY

I know the Hydra-track was mentioned, but the gearing? 3.91 in the manuals and 3.46 in the auto's.
Guess you could also count the wheels as another but that's just a general model difference, not really noteworthy?

HSVGTS125
25-06-2014, 08:15 AM
Last ones had different seats instead of coulson

white_lie
25-06-2014, 09:21 AM
That was just a Y II thing. The '04 R8's also got the same VZ style seats

HSVGTS125
25-06-2014, 10:18 AM
Yep I know but the question was what it had over the regular VY range.
HID driving lights and tyre gauge probably already mentioned
Roof mounted DVD player was optional I'm pretty sure too.

Sniper
26-06-2014, 01:22 PM
The SV6000 is another fav around here . . . however I never owned one and have never even sat in one . . . so the question for today is as much about my own curiosity as it is info for all!

What were all the features of the Dell gadget on the console? . . . and has anyone found it useful in their overall ownership experience?

white_lie
26-06-2014, 03:37 PM
When detached it was essentially a PDA.
In the car it was the beginnings of what is now the EDI system. Would offer GPS as it's main feature (although the screen shuts off when moving) but can also record 4 parameters at a time, eg oil temp, pressure coolant temp, etc.

I'm sure some of the SV6000 owners will chime in with more info than I can provide

Strick
26-06-2014, 05:50 PM
i can chip in here!!

The PDA with the DDI (driver dynamic interface) system i believe was the pre-cursor to what is currently in the VE+ . There are numerous parameters that can be monitored through a data-bus that is located under the stereo or where the GPS could be fitted in other models.

The signal is then sent through to the DDI thats installed on a Dell PDA running a Windows mobile, similar to XP, operating system. There are about 20 odd parameters that can be monitered but as said before only a few at once. They can also be monitered in different settings, eg real time logging, time based logging also sprint type logging over 400m. Ive got the full list on my other computer.

The data can then be loaded onto an Windows XP based system using the supplied program to see all thats happened up on the screen.

I believe this can be done with other ECUs such as Haltech and Motech etc but not too sure. If used for the purpose could be a hell of a tool when it came out in 2005!

Can also be used for GPS, doesnt shut off when moving but is hard to see being next to the window switches. Has full GPS capability eg- traffic updates, cameras etc.

When out of the car, just like any other PDA. Great for the professional HSV enthusiast on the move haha!!

Think i have a file somewhere that i have uploaded, ill see if i can get it up here

Sniper
28-06-2014, 01:22 PM
Think i have a file somewhere that i have uploaded, ill see if i can get it up here

Please do mate . . . and btw . . . happy birthday for today - I just wish I was 21 again . . . :)

Sniper
28-06-2014, 01:26 PM
I'm a big fan of Carbon Fibre parts on HiPo cars . . . and the Lip Spoiler on the W427 is a nice touch . . . what other models had genuine Carbon Fibre bits . . . and what were these bits?

JWM
28-06-2014, 09:38 PM
I remember the rear wing on the GTS-R being carbon fibre... Not sure if it was just the end plates though, or the whole thing? Might have been a few other bits too on that car but I'm not sure.

AR8317
29-06-2014, 08:37 AM
20th anniversary ve clubsport
rear wing and some other accents ???

Sniper
12-07-2014, 11:00 AM
Between 1994 and 1998 you could option the Holden HSV 5.7l donk with the Blueprint variant which was marketed as HRT Optimised . . . but in reality it was not all you may think in the HRT sense . . .

So what really happened at Clayton to process this option?

RedHotMike
12-07-2014, 08:29 PM
Accounts raised a bigger invoice & operations applied several stickers

HSVGTS125
12-07-2014, 11:18 PM
Don't really understand what you're asking.
Are you asking what the process entailed or what else happened?
I know it was expensive because Holden installed the stroker motor on their assembly line then HSV removed it to set tolerances for blueprinting.

Incidently, did you know the 5.4l XR8 and GT FPV shared the same engine. They differed only by cam and the FPV was blueprinted. All were hand built which make them quite special.

Sniper
13-07-2014, 12:47 PM
Well, I'll answer the second question first . . . yes I was aware of the process for the Ford 5.4 as I visited the FPV facility and saw the engine line in operation . . . It was a somewhat crude process with about 20 engines in build at any time from memory and the "hygiene" was less than impressive . . .

. . . back to HSV . . . well the only thing that HRT was involved in was the Dyno process . . . interestingly when I was there to see my GTSR in build they had a VT 195 on the Dyno doing full throttle endurance with the needle rocking between 192 and 198 KW . . . at the time I wasn't aware hat Crenno had a 195KW 5.0 ready for the VT

HSV had 2 Techs doing the Blueprint builds which they pretty much did from start to finish . . . they were not HRT staff but I was told when I quizzed Harves that the balancing/deck heights/machining was done at the HRT engine shop . . . the Blueprint builds were done in HSV Engineering in a small room that had a "respectable" level of hygiene . . .

So now that I've answered my own question - lol . . . here's another one . . . what was the mystique/tech surrounding the 195kw VT1 engine

moray066
13-07-2014, 12:57 PM
Was it the roller cam?


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HSVGTS125
13-07-2014, 03:52 PM
Roller cam and sequential injection was a Holden thing not HSV. HSV just did the usual CAI etc for 195kw engines.

Sniper
13-07-2014, 04:17 PM
Roller cam and sequential injection was a Holden thing not HSV. HSV just did the usual CAI etc for 195kw engines.

This is one of those questions that I'm asking as I have forgotten the nitty gritty of the 195 . . . the Holden engine had been upgraded with the roller cam for a total of 169kw - up from the 165 previous . . however my sketchy memory suggests the 195 got a specific cam grind and valve springs . . . I'm sure someone has the data . . .

Crenno was chasing more torque as the VT was heavier and under performed when compared with the VS

HSVGTS125
13-07-2014, 04:48 PM
Holden roller engine was 179kw
The basic CAI and slight exhaust change gave the clubsport, senator, maloo the 20kw over the SS as before with the 185 of VR/S days

HSV modifications:
New head design with new exhaust valves and valve seats, pistons, roller bearings, CAI and exhaust

white_lie
13-07-2014, 05:25 PM
I know Crane list the OE HSV cam but don't mention it's the same as the Holden grind. I was also of the assumption that they were slightly different, where the 185i's were the same as the regular 5L Holden cam.

Sniper
13-07-2014, 06:26 PM
I know Crane list the OE HSV cam but don't mention it's the same as the Holden grind. I was also of the assumption that they were slightly different, where the 185i's were the same as the regular 5L Holden cam.

I'm with you on this . . . just that its been a while and I want to get the data right . . . I'm hoping Daniel will have something in his memorabilia to confirm whether we are right or wrong . . . .

It's a bit of a shame that HSV don't get on and comment on some the old stuff in this thread given they have the data at hand . . . if I was raving on about how you can buy a VF GTS Auto driveaway for $92300 they would be whinging to admin to get the thread closed . . Lol

HSVGTS125
13-07-2014, 07:24 PM
Holden engine package was good for 179kw and Both the HSV enhanced car and HSV were 195.
Would you change a cam in HSV models and enhanced cars for a 16kw gain?
I do know HSV changed what I've mentioned

Sniper
13-07-2014, 07:37 PM
There is more to this . . . the 195 was a definitive combo screwed together at Fisherman's bend . . . we need to get to the bottom of this mate once and for all . .

HSVGTS125
13-07-2014, 07:38 PM
http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n509/itscarlos75/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140713_183154-1_zps6675f131.jpg (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/itscarlos75/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140713_183154-1_zps6675f131.jpg.html)

Sniper
13-07-2014, 07:44 PM
Ahhh . . . than fark for that document . . . the Cam thoughts in the back of my mind was correct - but it wasn't a "grind" thing . . . It was a bearing thing . . . so it's time for another question

During the early VN to VS years there were various intake boxes . . . how many were there and does anyone have the images on file of them?

HSVGTS125
13-07-2014, 07:56 PM
Several.
Standard V8, wide mouth (SV5000 type), VN Group A, SV89 (dropped down to the air dam), VR/S over the radiator type both with and without HSV insignia, Supercharged V6 over the radiator type,
Of the wide mouth type there are a few different lids but essentially the same box.

white_lie
13-07-2014, 08:04 PM
Roller bearings for the cam shaft? Didn't think you'd fit them in without machining the block? Can't see why they'd go to the effort of changing cam bearings only to slot the same cam shaft back in there.
First I've ever heard of roller cam bearings in a Holden block btw

Sniper
13-07-2014, 08:38 PM
Roller bearings for the cam shaft? Didn't think you'd fit them in without machining the block? Can't see why they'd go to the effort of changing cam bearings only to slot the same cam shaft back in there.
First I've ever heard of roller cam bearings in a Holden block btw

It's still a tad grey as the doc that has been posted is a bit odd in the LHS column too but I'm 100% sure HSVGTS125 has presented it in good faith . . .

Was it an official Holden/HSV Doc or a Magazine print?

HSVGTS125
13-07-2014, 08:49 PM
That was Signature of Success. Acknowledgement from HSV. VT was new at the time.
If my input isn't good enough I will bow out

Sniper
13-07-2014, 09:11 PM
http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n509/itscarlos75/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140713_183154-1_zps6675f131.jpg (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/itscarlos75/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140713_183154-1_zps6675f131.jpg.html)

Hey . . . nobody is going to doubt your personal judgement around here . . . especially me . . . but that doc has an alarming error in the LHS column

Not everything we see written is correct - and you would be one of the first to appreciate that . . fark me - some of the shit that Chester wrote about GTSR 001 goes to prove just my point . . .

I have never personally seen with my own eyes roller bearings in a Holden cam tunnel - have you? . . . which is why Im thinking this topic/question is not done 'n dusted yet . . .

white_lie
13-07-2014, 10:52 PM
I agree with a lot of what Graeme is saying and will also add that I'm certainly not full bottle on a lot of things so quite happy to be proven wrong. But roller cam bearings do not add up to me at all. I'm not sure what other bearings they could be referring to unless they mean rockers (which I didn't think they had either?).

Another spanner in the works, was the HBD 195i the same as a HSV 195i? My understanding is the HBD was bolt ons/tune but the HSV had different heads/valves, cam etc

We all know there is a heap of misinformation getting around and it only gets worse the older these models get. That's why this thread (and the others that have been started on the classics) is such a great idea.

Sniper
13-07-2014, 11:10 PM
I thought the HBD packs stopped at VS and 185 . . . having said that I seem to recall seeing 195 VT SS's . . . which is why half the questions I'm asking in this thread are for my benefit as much as the whole history thing

Some of the very last VS V8 utes had the HSV Red 195 donk fitted just to use them up

The plot seems to thicken . . Lol

HSVGTS125
14-07-2014, 05:39 PM
All HSV 195i cars were done at factory level unlike the 185 which was done at dealer level.
Holden Special Vehicles was the source of that info I provided (which doesn't make it right) but where else are you going to find it apart from actual spec sheets and by that I don't mean brochures because they say SFA

hsvwgn
14-07-2014, 09:12 PM
Maybe there is a typo that no-one has picked up on as yet, or maybe the editor was unaware of the technicalities of modern engines.
That doc is probably meant to say 'roller bearings for the camshaft FOLLOWERS'
In reference to the last of the Holden V8 having exactly that and nick-named the 'roller motor'.
Cheers
Dave

white_lie
14-07-2014, 09:16 PM
Even still, that's not a HSV modification with the Holden motors having the same setup. If they ran different lifters, why would they run the same cam?

hsvwgn
14-07-2014, 09:33 PM
You are correct.
HSV are being credited with some of the HEC changes in that doc

HSVGTS125
14-07-2014, 09:42 PM
It was the first time HSV and Holden worked on a model together, not the first time Holden has done their engines though. They'd been installing them since 1994 with the GTS not including the standard motors

Sniper
14-07-2014, 10:40 PM
Once again, I may be wrong . . . Holden built a number of performance EFI combos for installation in HSV/Holden models

VL Group A
VN Group A
VN SV5000/5000i etc
VP GTS
VR/VS/VT1 5.7
VT 195i

Is that list missing something?

I cannot help but think there is an error in the printed data here

07GTS
14-07-2014, 10:57 PM
was the vl group A efi..? might be wrong but i always thought it was carby and the vn grpA was the first efi...

white_lie
14-07-2014, 11:04 PM
EFI, similar intakes remember ;)

Sniper
14-07-2014, 11:06 PM
was the vl group A efi..? might be wrong but i always thought it was carby and the vn grpA was the first efi...

VK Group A HDT - Carby - Rochester Quadrajet
VL Group A HDT - Carby - Rochester Quadrajet
VL Group A HSV - EFI Twin Throttle Body
VN Group A HSV - EFI Twin Throttle Body

HSVGTS125
14-07-2014, 11:19 PM
Once again, I may be wrong . . . Holden built a number of performance EFI combos for installation in HSV/Holden models

VL Group A
VN Group A
VN SV5000/5000i etc
VP GTS
VR/VS/VT1 5.7
VT 195i

Is that list missing something?

I cannot help but think there is an error in the printed data here

With Group A it was Holden building EFi for Holden. You know as well as I do that HSV had nothing to do with VL engine development. Walkinshaw Group A and VN V8 were designed at the same time, before HSV even existed.
Maybe I should clear up my statement. VT was the first time Holden and HSV worked together on a model with HSV having input to design. Anything before was purely for the HSV product or assisting Holden. Engineers worked together on VT, not just HSV VT.

HSVGTS125
14-07-2014, 11:21 PM
was the vl group A efi..? might be wrong but i always thought it was carby and the vn grpA was the first efi...

1988 VL Group A had the first EFi followed by the VN SS in 1989

07GTS
14-07-2014, 11:26 PM
seems i have only ever seen the carby version or i just thought the twin throttle body was fitted to it afterwards... good info...

HSVGTS125
14-07-2014, 11:29 PM
VL Group A was first with EFi, VN heads and 4 bolt mains on a factory Holden.

HSVGTS125
14-07-2014, 11:33 PM
seems i have only ever seen the carby version or i just thought the twin throttle body was fitted to it afterwards... good info...

Have a look at this site
http://www.walkinshaw.net/specs/specs.html
My old walkinshaw is on this site "Carl's VL Walkinshaw"

07GTS
14-07-2014, 11:44 PM
i remember the walky had injection, but the standard group A ss as well..? thats where im getting mixed up or am i thinking of the hdt group A... i was a little young to soak in that era so im a little foggy on all the different specs seems alot happened durin the 80's

moray066
14-07-2014, 11:55 PM
The red VL Grp A was carby, it was a HDT built car. The Walky was injected.


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HSVGTS125
15-07-2014, 12:03 AM
As you may know there was no SS in VL, only a Group A SS.
All are Holden models but just to simplify it there are 2 separate era of VL Group A. The red carby 1986 HDT version & the EFi bluish/ silver 1988 HSV version.
VN Group A was last, as you know there was a VN SS too.
but just to confuse it more, the VN Group A was Berlina based with Calais instrumentation and not based on the SS......

moray066
15-07-2014, 12:13 AM
In the VL range, the HDT SS group 3 cars, were they an official model?


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07GTS
15-07-2014, 12:15 AM
ok thanks everyone all cleared up and back on track now...

HSVGTS125
15-07-2014, 12:16 AM
VL Group 3 an Official HDT version?.... built after the Holden/ Brock split by the looks
http://www.hdt.com.au/view/vl/vl-group-3

richo7502000
16-07-2014, 01:22 PM
Once again, I may be wrong . . . Holden built a number of performance EFI combos for installation in HSV/Holden models

VL Group A
VN Group A
VN SV5000/5000i etc
VP GTS
VR/VS/VT1 5.7
VT 195i

Is that list missing something?

I cannot help but think there is an error in the printed data here

VT GTS S1 220i 5.7 as well Mr Sniper was another one, which differentiated a fair bit from the 215i Stroker fitted to the VR-VS as far as HSV mods went. (I know you said VR/VS/VT1 5.7).

Pickles
16-07-2014, 05:10 PM
In the VL range, the HDT SS group 3 cars, were they an official model?


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Yes, as the article says there was one, but what the article doesn't say is that the model's "official" title was "VL Group 111 Signature Series".
You will also note that the power output was stated at 187KW, yet they were clearly outperformed by the Walkinshaw VL Group A which claimed an output of 186KW!
The Signature Series was made from a variety of HDT parts, & was a gutsy effort by PB, who was doing it pretty tough at the time. There was also a red VL Signature Series Station Wagon built.
Pickles.

HSVGTS125
16-07-2014, 05:16 PM
Walkinshaw had a claimed output of 180kw. That's the output printed in the logbook.
Brock cars had claimed output without auxiliaries From memory

HSVGTS125
16-07-2014, 05:18 PM
Once again, I may be wrong . . . Holden built a number of performance EFI combos for installation in HSV/Holden models

VL Group A
VN Group A
VN SV5000/5000i etc
VP GTS
VR/VS/VT1 5.7
VT 195i

Is that list missing something?

I cannot help but think there is an error in the printed data here
Would you include 180kw supercharged 6?

moray066
16-07-2014, 07:32 PM
Yes, as the article says there was one, but what the article doesn't say is that the model's "official" title was "VL Group 111 Signature Series".
Pickles.

Yes, the Walkinshaw's official power output was 180kw, although many publications rated it as 184kw. Does anyone know where this number came from?
And Pickles, I understand that there was a VL Group 3, but was it an Holden authorised Model? I mean, was it a model you could by new from your local Holden dealer, or, due to the split, did it have to be purchased directly from HDT?


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Sniper
16-07-2014, 07:56 PM
Probably . . . but I don't give anything HSV "non V8" the time of day around here

I'm awaiting clarification on the VT 195 & 220 valvetrain specs before I can really move on from this question

HSVGTS125
16-07-2014, 08:10 PM
Probably . . . but I don't give anything HSV "non V8" the time of day around here

I'm awaiting clarification on the VT 195 & 220 valvetrain specs before I can really move on from this question

There is no info on line about 195i can spec other than its the same as 220i. Not sure if that it true or not.

On the HDT thing, once Holden split with PB there was no link. HDT had to stand on its own feet which is why prices went up and the business Ended up sold.

richo7502000
17-07-2014, 09:11 PM
Probably . . . but I don't give anything HSV "non V8" the time of day around here

I'm awaiting clarification on the VT 195 & 220 valvetrain specs before I can really move on from this question

What do you want to know I have the specs.... I have sent you a FB PM message Graeme. It may possibly be what you want?

white_lie
17-07-2014, 09:25 PM
About time you got here richo!

What are the similarities/differences between the 179kw Holden 5L and the 195kw HSV version? Even the 220i if you like. Particularly in the cam department, do they all run the same cam?

richo7502000
17-07-2014, 09:48 PM
About time you got here richo!

What are the similarities/differences between the 179kw Holden 5L and the 195kw HSV version? Even the 220i if you like. Particularly in the cam department, do they all run the same cam?

The 195i and 220i Motors both run the same Cam and heads, dual row chain etc as each other, the 215i runs a different cam etc, and the 180KW HSV appears to share most of the 165 KW Standard 5 litre injected cam and engine with only exhaust, intake and PCM differences (and additional knock sensor).

white_lie
17-07-2014, 10:14 PM
And is the 195/220 different to the regular Holden 179 cam?

richo7502000
17-07-2014, 11:39 PM
And is the 195/220 different to the regular Holden 179 cam?

Yes totally different

white_lie
18-07-2014, 12:01 AM
Thank you kind sir

HSVGTS125
18-07-2014, 08:38 AM
Yes totally different

So what is the difference between 179 and 195

Sniper
18-07-2014, 09:08 AM
There are 12 unique part numbers that differentiate the 195 from the 179

From an outright performance perspective . . . the 195 had a specific camshaft and specific exhaust valves

The other parts used were for durability . . .

HSVGTS125
18-07-2014, 09:56 AM
Can you post the spec sheet?

Sniper
18-07-2014, 10:18 AM
Can you post the spec sheet?

At this point in time - No

I am going to get the Stock 179 Cam Specs first then I can post a "lift & duration" comparison

The document(s) I have are confidential, however I do have other docs coming that I hope that I can post

What I can say is - the info I now have confirms my original thoughts and memory from 17 years ago . . . and does confirm that HSV had a dedicated combo for the VT series one range

I can recall being at Clayton for the VT release and Steve Markwell (National Marketing Manager at the time) mentioning the unique HSV combo for the "heavier" VT

I bought 2 Series one VT's before the release - a Red GTS (Blueprint) for myself and an Orion Silver Senater 195 for a staffer

HSVGTS125
18-07-2014, 04:33 PM
Slightly off topic but the first VT I saw was a raven mica VT GTS at summernats 11 (1997/8 ) with HSVVT1 number plates. Same one the Media used

Sniper
24-07-2014, 10:21 PM
Between 1994 and 1998 you could option the Holden HSV 5.7l donk with the Blueprint variant which was marketed as HRT Optimised . . . but in reality it was not all you may think in the HRT sense . . .

So what really happened at Clayton to process this option?

Hey JK . . here is a question of the day from a week or so ago that went off the rails so best we answer it properly since you brought the subject up again in another thread . . . Although I feel the data is on the forum elsewhere

Anyway. . . The cars would arrive from Elizabeth with he 5.7 already in place which was then removed for the "Optimised or Blueprint" build

Essentially it was a total rebuild with a rotating assembly balance . . . Block decked to eaqualise the comp on all cylinders and raised to 8.85:1 . . . Cam dialled in to exacting specs . . . 3 angle valve job and a rum on the Engine Dyno . . . most engines made between 11 and 13 KW over std

1997 HRT GTS
27-07-2014, 01:09 AM
Slightly off topic but the first VT I saw was a raven mica VT GTS at summernats 11 (1997/8 ) with HSVVT1 number plates. Same one the Media used

That would be my car.
HSVVTI was a prototype test and press car and by Sept 1998 the engine had been pushed out to 250 kw and stroked to 6 litres with HRT Optimised blue print engine etc.
GTS Build number 045 was still in HSV's possession as it was still being tested by wheels magazine Sept 98 so were they pushing the Holden block out to its capacity during testing before the Chev came out?
1997 VT GTS build 045 was front cover of many mags back in 97 and 98, including Wheels and Motor magazine and was HSV's official Press "Hero" car at the time.

Y2Clubby
03-08-2014, 02:52 AM
I've got a question for you, who was responsible for the VN Aero? I know it was HDT, but Peter Brock was no longer involved, is that right? Also, from memory, the V6 models were based on the re-badged Toyota Lexen. The wheels were star forms, in 16"
and 17", so can we add those to the list of VN wheels?

HSVGTS125
03-08-2014, 04:04 AM
I've got a question for you, who was responsible for the VN Aero? I know it was HDT, but Peter Brock was no longer involved, is that right? Also, from memory, the V6 models were based on the re-badged Toyota Lexen. The wheels were star forms, in 16"
and 17", so can we add those to the list of VN wheels?

VN Aero brief... Pickles is the man to ask about the VN HDT development. I love the darker colour Aero with Starform mags. They still modernise the horrible VN shape
http://www.hdt.com.au/view/vn/vn-areo

VN Lexcen Aero (#9 of 15)
http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/HDT-Aero-1990/SSE-AD-153239/

and although not technically a VN, my old VG Magnum ute thrown in for good mix
http://www.hsvforum.com.au/showthread.php?7645-1990-VG-HDT-Magnum-ute-(replica)

Sniper
03-08-2014, 10:08 AM
It was funded by the Collerafi Bros that brought the remnants of HDT from Brock . . . as suggested , Pickles has the answers . . . It was a difficult time for me as Holden had HSV up and going and about 6km away on Dandenong Road was the Collorafi's with their set up . . . something had to give and I guess Holden ultimately won . . .

Y2Clubby
03-08-2014, 10:07 PM
I remember that Brocky and Holden's relationship was over, I just didn't know who owned HDT at the time. I remember when my uncle bought a brand new red Aero, with white 17" starforms. I loved the body kit, and the how well it worked with those wheels.
I bought a set for my VK in 1995. $3000 grand for a set of 17 inch wheels was a lot of money for me, but there was no other wheel that to me looked as good, and I just had to have them. While I was having my car painted, I lent them to a mate to put on his VH SL/E for a show he entered. The car got stolen, and I never seen them again.

My uncles car was a V6 Lexen. I have never known why they used the Toyota badged car instead of a Holden. Could it be because of Holden's relationship with Tom Walkinshaw & HSV?

HSVGTS125
03-08-2014, 10:44 PM
Im pretty sure it was just a dealer who did it. Lexcen was cheaper than commodore remember.
Also, Holden had no ties to HDT, so the "base" car was whatever the customer was prepared to pay for

moray066
03-08-2014, 10:53 PM
I remember when I was a kid a guy up the road from me had one built through HDT, the base car was a VN, V6 auto. Now I'm left wondering was it a Holden or toyota? Not that it makes any real difference, still same car. The owner used to brag about how good the suspension upgrades were and how well it handled. It never really interested me as I saw it as an auto V6 commodore. Still it did look the part

1997 HRT GTS
28-08-2014, 03:46 AM
Hi moray066, can you remember what colour your naibours car was?

I've always wanted an Alpine White one ever since i first saw them in car yard Sydney rd Fawkner all those years ago.
I still remember when Aero's were selling secondhand for 23, 000 in early 90's. Couldn't afford one! Drooool....

moray066
28-08-2014, 11:07 PM
It was dark blue, looked the goods

1997 HRT GTS
29-08-2014, 11:46 PM
Yes, I remember the dark blue Aero's.
My second favorite color in the Aero.
Wonder if its still around.
Thanks mate.

Strick
16-12-2014, 11:36 AM
Over to Graeme!

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa318/Brady2806/For%20Graeme/OTR.jpg (http://s199.photobucket.com/user/Brady2806/media/For%20Graeme/OTR.jpg.html)

Sniper
16-12-2014, 12:13 PM
Well, there is nothing stopping anyone from putting a W427 engine cover on any other model but for all intensive purposes this is the "real deal" . . . but to validate the image , I can see two things that give it away as a genuine "Virgin" W427 (other than the Harrop OTR)

So, the question(s) of the day are . . . what are the 2 visible things on this image that confirm it at the real deal??

. . . and cheers to you Brady for posting this pic . .

white_lie
16-12-2014, 12:39 PM
Oil reservoir on the bottom right for the dry sump... Well you can see the hard line to it at least

Audi
16-12-2014, 12:48 PM
Temp sensor?

Edit- nope you're just running a mafless tune with the maf in?

Audi
16-12-2014, 12:53 PM
Theres no heat sheilding on the extractors.

white_lie
16-12-2014, 12:53 PM
Exhaust manifolds/heat shields?
Bit hard to make out on the phone

Audi
16-12-2014, 12:57 PM
And there is no where for an LS3 etc airbox to go. It will be missing the airbox mount near the jump start point.

Sniper
16-12-2014, 01:00 PM
Well, I'm damn impressed . . . Yep the headers are specific W427 so that was the easy one . .

. . . the hard one was the very bottom right hand corner shows the smallest part of the oil reservoir dipstick (yellow) that gives the clues away. . .

So well done White Lie in particular and you too Audi . . . take the rest of the day off and throw something back at the rest of us in this thread . .

richo7502000
16-12-2014, 01:57 PM
Did you end up doing this with your W427 yet Graeme???

white_lie
16-12-2014, 03:45 PM
Surprised even myself at picking both Graeme :)
Wish I could have the day off, just flown back to work for the week.

I'll have a think and try and come up with a question for tomorrow

poorman
16-12-2014, 06:00 PM
Hmm forget the yellow dipstick how do you pick the difference in the headers . is it in the bends ???

Audi
16-12-2014, 07:48 PM
They don't have the heat shields on them like the LS3.

Sniper
16-12-2014, 08:05 PM
They don't have the heat shields on them like the LS3.

I guess it's time to have a closer look and get the diameters of the pipes etc . . . they are a specific product for the LS7

poorman
16-12-2014, 08:14 PM
yeah maybe mandrel bent too have more flow...less restiction

white_lie
16-12-2014, 08:20 PM
I don't know what design they are but the LS3 is more of a 4-1 log, pointing straight back where the LS7 looks to be more of a tri y and goes down to the rails like an aftermarket header

Strick
16-12-2014, 09:56 PM
Thank you HSV forum, ive learnt something tonight!

white_lie
16-12-2014, 10:23 PM
A few will know the answer to this one...

The most common promo/competition give away vehicles were probably the two black Tooheys VN Group A's. There was also another trio of vehicles given away a few models later. What were they and what colours?

walkysa
17-12-2014, 12:35 AM
1994 VR HSV GTS 215i BROCK COLLECTOR SERIES white red and blue??? not sure on colours but I've seen the red one many years ago and Peter Champion has a blue one (probably still has it) Kmart/Mobil prizes for buying mobil oil.

WalkySA

white_lie
17-12-2014, 01:04 AM
Easy done! Your turn ;)

walkysa
17-12-2014, 01:52 AM
what were the only two factory options listed for the VL SS SV Group A? (not including any dealer fitted options such as sunroofs etc)

Probably a bit to easy.

WalkySA

mickyinc
17-12-2014, 02:57 AM
mesh grill in bumper is one

Sniper
17-12-2014, 03:54 PM
The little plugs that fitted into the side skirts to cover the jacking points were sold separately - I think . . . apart from that I thought you could order leather?? . . . Rear Headrests . . . Calais Front (not 100% sure about that) . . . smooth finish lower skirts . . . .

Audi
17-12-2014, 05:01 PM
Fax?

Sniper
17-12-2014, 05:54 PM
Fax?

. . . . SV88 was the fax thing!!

Audi
17-12-2014, 06:23 PM
Yeah was just a guess :p would have been an odd option for a race setup haha

walkysa
17-12-2014, 08:46 PM
Mesh grill insert and the jacking point blanks were the only options. Anything else would be considered dealer options, Sniper I'm not 100% but I think the first 300'ish came with the textured lower spoilers and skirts the rest didn't. Mine is an early number and has the textured finish, I've seen a number of later numbers with smooth finish.

Someone else can have a go now. Or perhaps the next question is explain the textured finish on the skirrts as opposed to the smooth finish. ie exact numbers of cars etc.

Cheers

WalkySA

HSVGTS125
18-12-2014, 01:23 AM
Mesh insert and jack blanks were options that came with every car.
Sunroofs, leather and Calais front were all ex factory except #369 which had all those plus Calais extras and solid C Pillar fitted on site at Notting Hill but not by HSV. Well it didn't get the flip lights.

Rough skirts vs smooth depends on who you talk to at HSV. My old one had rough originally but was later done smooth. I changed it back. A number in the 600s that was a low km example also had rough finish.
No walkinshaw left the factory with the lower skirts fitted. They couldn't be shipped as they were too low

Pickles
18-12-2014, 10:00 AM
When "Leather" is mentioned here, I gather "ex factory" means by the Dealer?
I've never seen a Walkinshaw with leather, anyone got any pics or seen one,...what was it like & what colour was the leather?
Door trims as well?
Pickles.

Sniper
18-12-2014, 10:03 AM
Good result from a good question . . .

Time for another question from someone else - whilst there are only a few of us posting in this thread I feel that there is plenty of info for the members to gather from the HDT/HSV history just by watching and reading our posts

HSVGTS125
18-12-2014, 10:36 AM
Grey leather, solid C Pillar, Calais footwell lights, electric mirrors plus sunroof & VL HDT Group A wheels were all fitted to #369 at Notting Hill. The customer wanted it all fitted in the factory so HSV had it all done on site but not by them. Cost for #369 was $60k in 1988. Craig (the owner) has the invoice.

HSVGTS125
18-12-2014, 10:39 AM
http://www.musclecarstables.com.au/toys_details.php?id=4

Pickles
18-12-2014, 11:48 AM
Good info there, ...never heard of that car before.
I'm amazed that HSV would even "have anything to do" with HDT Momos, as, at that time, there was still a massive amount of "flack" about, surrounding the Brock HDT issue, to which HSV were very sensitive, unnecessarily so on most occasions, IMHO.
Pickles

Sniper
18-12-2014, 12:55 PM
I need to do an image search as I took a pic of he HEC development hack with the bonnet and MOMO's in early October 1987 - it was in the Bathurst Pit carpark hidden right up the back on the Thursday . . . never saw it again

It was a Beige/Gold metallic from memory . . .

HSVGTS125
18-12-2014, 03:16 PM
The protos were permanent red group a cars resprayed. Momo wheels just stayed on the cars.
#369 is the Group A you always see posters of for sale. Its on the grass.

HSVGTS125
18-12-2014, 03:18 PM
Hope u can find that pic one day Graeme

Sniper
18-12-2014, 03:45 PM
Hope u can find that pic one day Graeme

One of my staff took the pic for memory so I'm going to ask him tonight to dig it out . . . yep, I do have staff that have worked for me for 25+ years . . . god I am old . . . Lol

Strick
18-12-2014, 05:45 PM
Yep, i dont have much to add here however am learning alot about the history of the brand we love, thanks to all those that have input.

Geez Graeme, you must have good conditions, any very well paying jobs that dont need experience. Happy just to look after your car collection haha!!

Nitrate
18-12-2014, 09:46 PM
Hence the reason 001 now looks like 369, I think he regretted selling 369, true or false? :)

HSVGTS125
18-12-2014, 11:25 PM
He does regret it.
He tried buying it back but he wouldn't sell. So Craig rang me and asked if I'd sell 001 to him instead and I agreed.

Andrew_02
21-08-2015, 01:50 PM
Question of the day! No, but I think this area can't be read by non HSV Forum member that are using google?

WRT the possible Holden SS model with an LSA I doubt it and if it is just a dealer mod, no discounts would apply.
If its a Holden standard car then it could come with a Holden employees discount now 23 percent
se: www@hrc.org.au look for the CVO section, don't get the VE/WM and VF/WN discounts mixed up!
The price reduction is the same! that is 35% for a WM is the same as 23 for a WN after taxes and 2k off Dealer Delivery.
cheers