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Senator01
02-01-2013, 10:58 PM
OK ... BMW has 'M' series, Mercedes has 'AMG', Porsche has ... well Porsche. So Holden has HSV for the performance arm ... why then is there a disparity between the output figures for the European cars versus the local product? Why aren't we seeing (and paying for), nearer the 400KW outputs that we see from the offshore vehicles?

We have seen our product can match and compete with the Euro's, why then are we only seeing minor increments in output every model update (proposed 335KW for VF) locally when we keep seeing 400KW plus from Euro imports?? If the advent of the Gen V Chevy brings tech advances, why not push the boundaries and offer a 400KW version to match the Euro offerings. They seem to love Twin Turbo .. why aren't we?

I don't understand what the blockers are?? I think it's time the local manufacturers wakeup and realise it's time to meet the Euro's at their own game. We are Aussie, stop pussying around and build something worthy of our dollar??

I would pay $100K for a 400kw HSV with the works no probs againat a $220K BMW M3, or AMG C63. Wake up HSV, break free of mainstream and go back to what you were .... vehicles with status and most of all ... 'balls'..

GTS-213
03-01-2013, 12:03 AM
One word "government"

HSVGTS125
03-01-2013, 09:38 AM
HSV has never lead the way, they've always followed the trends (trailed actually) and always been left behind in the true performance stakes.
Another thing is HSV is a very small local niche market that isn't global in the same way BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar, Porche is, which means they dont have the buying power, facilities, research capabilities and funding like their performance "opposition" from Europe and Asia.

Quality of product is another thing buyers want, not just performance. An example is a mate of mine and his business partner, he owns a W427 and his mate has a M3 of the same era. I love the W427 but comparing them side by side it isn't close at all. Yes you pay more for the M3 but you get a better quality vehicle too unfortunatley. The doors for instance shut with a solid "thud" on the BMW but have that tinny sound on the HSV. It may seem picky but when you pay well over 6 figure for a car you want the same if not better quality than the opposition, not the same as an everyday $30k commodore.

There aren't many HSV buyers out there who will buy a vehicle that commands the $$ to truely compete with the real performance cars of the world, the W427 proved that. Until HSV can out perform cars that cost less than their entry level such as the WRX and european turbo 4's I believe they're a long way off competing with the real super sedans of the world.

TheRealShifter
04-01-2013, 10:34 AM
There aren't many HSV buyers out there who will buy a vehicle that commands the $$ to truely compete with the real performance cars of the world, the W427 proved that. Until HSV can out perform cars that cost less than their entry level such as the WRX and european turbo 4's I believe they're a long way off competing with the real super sedans of the world.
HSV, while being a performance brand, is still about affordability. They make performance cars that are accessible to the blue collar. Part of the performance issue is that they are working from a Holden base. The chassis design is big and heavy and not designed for performance. Sure they make it faster and corner a bit better with bigger engines and stiffer suspension but at it's heart it's still a big fat slug. If you want HSV to make a car that will really compete with Jaguars, Porsches, AMG's, etc then they need to make a car that's lighter, has a lower centre of gravity and a better drag coofficient. But that will mean more $$ and most likely not using the Commodore as a platform and that's just not going to happen.
If you want a fancy-pants Euro car then go buy one, if you can afford it. Me, I'll stick to my Aussie-built V8, which I think gives the smaller turbos a pretty damn good run for it's money if not a hard punch in the face. And it sounds better too.

HSVGTS125
04-01-2013, 03:46 PM
HSV, while being a performance brand, is still about affordability. They make performance cars that are accessible to the blue collar. Part of the performance issue is that they are working from a Holden base. The chassis design is big and heavy and not designed for performance. Sure they make it faster and corner a bit better with bigger engines and stiffer suspension but at it's heart it's still a big fat slug. If you want HSV to make a car that will really compete with Jaguars, Porsches, AMG's, etc then they need to make a car that's lighter, has a lower centre of gravity and a better drag coofficient. But that will mean more $$ and most likely not using the Commodore as a platform and that's just not going to happen.
If you want a fancy-pants Euro car then go buy one, if you can afford it. Me, I'll stick to my Aussie-built V8, which I think gives the smaller turbos a pretty damn good run for it's money if not a hard punch in the face. And it sounds better too.

I dont really know why you've attached my post to your reply??? I was getting at HSV being a good local car but we'd be kidding ourselves to think its a world class competitor. Yes its quick but so is the FPV and that makes HSV diehards sick because it doesn't have the "refinement" or luxury an HSV has.
But when comparing HSV to the euro cars people generally turn a blind eye to that very same difference the HSV lacks from its euro competitors.
I wouldn't call 70 to 100k blue collar affordability. SS is blue collar.

Senator01
04-01-2013, 08:16 PM
The cold hard fact is the Euro's know how to build a car ... full stop. The blocker here though is that we in our little island have to pay at least $100 to $150K more than either UK or US folk for the same vehicle ... which limits a substantial amount of us ever experiencing this level of performance. We are stuck with local brands for some entertainment.

Whilst I know our small number of manufacturers try their best at providing us something with 'performance' attached. They are not in the league when compared to the Euro brethren ... Don't get me wrong ... our product, for what its worth is value for money ... but they could do better ... I am sure both HSV and Ford (old FPV) could readily increase their engine outputs up to and beyond 400KW, but something is stopping them ... and I would like to know what exactly. I don't think it has anything to do with $$$ or turn over ... I think it is something more ... Government?? I am not sure ...

Sniper
04-01-2013, 10:42 PM
The biigest problem we have with our HSV's is the doner car from Holden . . . all HSV do is add cosmetics and we no that . . . GM/Holden have not evolved the VE enough . . . it was earmarked for a huge revamp mid life in late 2009 but that didnt happen and much of this will arrive in the VF . . . but its still going to be hard

Have a look at this . . . Holden will struggle to get another order from me . . . http://www.motoring.com.au/news/prestige-and-luxury/mercedes-benz/e-class/detroit-motor-show-benz-unveils-two-door-e-class-variants-34315

In basic spec it can be had for $110k . . . it wont have 325kw . . . but who cares . . . it'll have more torque & shit loads more economy . . . YUM

senta
08-01-2013, 05:48 PM
there advancments in variable valve timings like bmw aswell with "vanos" is like having them already "tuned" i suppose. after watching a you tube vid on how they make the hsv and with walkinshaw i wonder if much will change

Angeldust
12-01-2013, 09:01 PM
monaro/camaro base from the VF would be nice start.

les96
14-01-2013, 02:59 PM
Euro vs Aust - euro price vs Aus local car cost

The value looks even worse when you take the Aus Gov taxes out for imports